October 15, 2025 – Planning Board – Video & Transcript
October 15, 2025 - Planning Board
Good evening. This is the meeting of the Wayland Planning Board. It's Wednesday, October the 15th, 2025 at 7pm. And I'm calling the meeting to order. I'll take roll call by, I'll take roll call.
Jesse Newberry. Here. Robin Borgestedt. Here. Larry Kiernan. Here. Annette Lewis here. Ira Montague isn't here, but he's supposed to be. So hopefully he will show up. This evening, we have a full agenda. We have a public comment for matters not on the agenda.
Then we have PB number 2502, 169 Race Road, St. Philippator Mercurius and St. Minas Coptic Orthodox Church site plan approval. The next, following that, that's at 710 at 810.
We have a public hearing, 2503, 437 to 45 Waltham Road. It's the Carroll School site plan approval public hearing. Both of those are Dover amendment subjects. And we'll explain that as we move through this.
Then at approximately 910, we have a proposed endorsement of an approval not required plan for the Carroll School, 3745 Waltham Road. Then we're going to review and approve our draft minutes. We only have the minutes of 917.25 this evening. Ira Montague has joined the meeting. Ira, are you here?
Ira Montague is here. I am here. I am here. Thank you.
Then we have 2303, 8 Andrew Avenue Council on Aging Community Center updated landscape plan to review.
Then updates from the town planner, where he's going to brief us on the Cherena Road Farms subdivision revised water main and hydrant plan sheet.
And also he's going to brief us on the Sherman's bridge road, bridge rehabilitation, then board comments and concerns, then matters not anticipated, regionally anticipated by the chair, 48 hours in advance of the meeting, and then adjourned.
And I'm not aware of any matters that I did not know of 48 hours in advance.
I want to just be able to see, ooh, the participants. Okay.
Annette, I just want to mention, I see Nick Munkenbeck's iPhone in the attendees. Okay. If he'd like to join us, he can. Yeah. How do I get to see the list of participants?
You would go. Oh, there it is. I couldn't get it before. Sorry.
So Nick is listed as a panelist. Okay. Terrific. Hi, everybody. Hi. Glad to have you. We thought it would be a good idea for you to just start seeing the kinds of things we review and the detail we go into, so that you'll be ready when you have to do something. Okay. So is there any public comment on matters not in on the agenda? Please raise your hand if you have any.
I'll bet their hand raised.
You don't see any and I don't see any. Okay. I see. Oh, there is. Hanupi Chan, can you allow him to speak? If it's a him.
Hello. Hello. Please state your name and address. Yeah. My name is Hanupi Chan. I moved into number five, Christina, Turkey Hill last year.
Yes. You get me? We're not taking public comment on anything that's on the agenda. So if you want to speak about something that isn't on the agenda, please do. Yeah. This is about the Coptic church. Right. And this is not the right time for that. That will be handled. We'll have public comment during each of the hearings. Where would it be? The agenda is available. It's the next matter of business. Okay. And what we'll do, I'll explain the matter as we go through. Is that, what, the only thing you want to speak about?
Well, I have some point to point out about the church. No, this, I don't want to talk about the church right now. Oh, okay. I'll wait. Thank you. Thank you. As we, since we have lots of people here, as we go through, as I said before, because of the way we have to schedule meetings and give notice in the newspaper, the town planner chose to have an hour allocated for the Coptic church and a separate hour allocated for the Carroll school. I expect that we'll go over slightly in time, but not a lot. So I just want you to all understand that. We've read all everyone's comments. We understand the main issues affecting people. And as we begin each of the hearings, I will explain what our jurisdiction is and what it is not. We have very limited jurisdiction. So some of your concerns may be able to be addressed by the board. Others may be able to be addressed with the applicant. How are we doing for time, Robert?
Two more minutes. Is there, let's see.
Well, as we're waiting from the, we have one, one more minute, maybe. Has everybody on the board read through the materials? Yes. Okay. Because that'll help enormously.
Who is here from the applicants, from the, the church applicant side? I have. I have a few. I have the other hands. And can you, okay. And can you elevate them? Sure.
Some of you.
Robert, is there a way to copy all the participants listed here? We have to do a screenshot right now. If you can during the meeting, I would appreciate it. Sure. It's now 710. And I'd like to call to order the public hearing on PB2502, 169 Rice Road, Map 40, Lot 008, St. Philippator Mercurius, and St. Minna Coptic Orthodox Church site plan approval public hearing. Good evening, representatives. The way I'd like to run the meeting this evening is to have you do a presentation of the project. We have all looked at the materials, but we'd like an overview summary. And so the public can understand what you're proposing as well. Then the board will ask questions, followed by public comment. And we're going to try and stick to a reasonable time frame. We've allotted an hour. I expect it will go over slightly, but we don't have much leeway in time. And so as we begin, I just want to, for everyone, run through these applications, the requirements that the planning board can apply to this application. Under state law, Massachusetts, Chapter 40A, Section 3, which is referred to as the Dover Amendment because of a particular case that occasioned the adoption of this statute. And these are subjects which zoning may not regulate. So paragraph two is referred to as the Dover Amendment, and it says, No zoning ordinance or bylaw shall prohibit, regulate, or restrict the use of land or structures for religious purposes or for educational purposes on land owned or leased by a religious sect or denomination, or by a non-profit educational corporation, provided, provided, however, that such land or structures may be subject to reasonable regulations concerning the bulk and height of structures and determining yard sizes, lot area, setbacks, open space, parking, and building coverage requirements. We also have a Wayland bylaw, Section 198-601, that mirrors the state statute but goes a little bit further. And Section 606.3 of the bylaw says, When reviewing and acting on a site plan application for the principal use of land or a building or structure for daycare, educational, nursery school, or religious uses that are exempt from regulation under Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 40A, Section 3, The Planning Board shall apply reasonable regulations concerning the bulk and height of structures and determining yard sizes, lot area, setbacks, open space, parking, and building coverage requirements as set forth in the zoning bylaw, Except to the extent that the applicant shows that the regulation is unreasonable and unrelated to a legitimate municipal concern and will substantially detract or diminish the applicant's ability to conduct the exempt use. As the applicant is explaining the project, I hope that, I know that the board and I hope that the public will think about those things that we've just spoken about that can be regulated and make your comments accordingly. So, who is it who's speaking first this evening? Is it you, Mr. Silversky? Somebody's echoing. Hi, I'm, I'm, I'm Sean Landon and I'm representing, um, St. Philippiter Church, um, from, uh, Studio DSK, uh, where the architects, uh, where the architects, uh, where the architects, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's echoing, so if, please mute yourselves. Thank you. I'm sorry, Mr. Landon. No worries. Um, so I will be giving the introduction of the project, uh, to you all. And, um, we have, um, joining us, um, part of our team. So I have, uh, Courtney Borelli, uh, from DSK as well. Um, and I have, um, uh, representatives from St. Philippiter, I believe, uh, Maged Barsum and, uh, Deacon George Gailey. Um, and we have, uh, Oak Consulting, uh, Sean Malone and Crowley Cottrell Landscape, uh, Naomi, I'm sorry, Naomi Cottrell from Crowley Cottrell. So, um, um, I'll do the introduction and we also have, um, the owner's legal counsel, Jonathan Silverstein on, um, to help us out. So, um, if, uh, if you'd like, I can start with the introduction. Terrific. Thank you. So St. Philippiter Mercurius and St. Mia Coptic Orthodox Church is proposing, uh, the development of a new church complex that will serve the spiritual, social, and communal needs, uh, of its congregation. Um, the project, uh, is located on 169 Rice Road, as you know. Um, it will consist of, uh, three main buildings and, uh, will be supported by, um, uh, parking. Um, there is a, uh, a central courtyard, uh, within the center of the buildings, which is open air. Uh, and there is a soccer field. Um, we have, um, we have, um, two, uh, entrances or, or driveways, uh, to the property. Do you think it might help if you, um, if we shared, let you share the screen and you could point those things out? Yes. Uh, Courtney, I don't know if you're on and have that up and can share that easily. Sean, would you like me to, uh, share the, the site plans? I have the existing condition available. That'd be extremely helpful. Thanks, Sean. I also have an illustrative plan if you want that. Great. Okay. So what we have on the screen right now is, uh, the existing conditions. Um, and as you can see, there is, um, there is a main building, which is the, the church that is in use today. Um, I don't know if you guys can see my cursor. No. Yes. Now we can. I'll try it. This is, this is me doing this, Sean. I'll try to follow along with you. Perfect. Perfect. So the main entrance, uh, is, uh, is, is just to, um, it's planned South, but that's actually West. Um, and as you enter in off of, um, uh, Rice Road, uh, you can, uh, go either to the right into the parking, which I believe there are, uh, 80 something spaces there now, 86 or 87. Um, and the, uh, occupant load there is currently about 300 and just short of 370, uh, consists of the church and a, uh, on a function hall. Um, and then to the left of that, which would be North, um, is a, an existing soccer field. And just below that is a, uh, an exit, um, off to Turkey Hill. Um, up behind the, the existing church is, is wooded land, um, which is sits between, um, uh, essentially rice road and Turkey Hill. Um, and it is, it is heavily wooded. Um, so those are the existing conditions that we're, we're dealing with what we're proposing. And if, um, Naomi, if your plan has, um, the new plan, that would be helpful. Yeah. I'm going to load this or try to load this. Let me see if I can, um. Perfect. Can everybody see that? Yes. Can you blow it up a bit? I sure can. You should be able to do that within the application, Larry. Yep. Oh. Yourself. Well, if they can do a full screen, that would be good for everyone. Yeah. That's full screen. If you'd like me to zoom in more, I can. Let me try to do that. So I'll, while she's doing that, um, thank you, Naomi. Uh, I'll start by saying that, um, the building on the right hand side, which is in a vertical format is, um, is a proposed church. We're going to refer to that as building A and that's how it's referred to through the plans. Um, to the left of that is building B and that's a youth center, Sunday school and senior housing. Uh, and then the building at the bottom there is, um, what we call building C and that's the, um, diocese center. Um, this is planned to be a phased construction with the church, um, being the first, uh, of the three, uh, buildings. Um, and so you can see in the center there is a courtyard. The, the two buildings, A and B are built into the hillside, uh, as, uh, if you visited the site, the, the elevation difference between the front of the church and the back of the hill, uh, which is to the east side, north on the page is about 30 feet difference. So what we've tried to do is, um, thoughtfully push the buildings into the side of the hill so as to eliminate, um, much of the height, um, that is, um, uh, shown to the, the neighbors in, in the, um, turkey hill development. Um, the, the landscape around the perimeter of the, the site is, um, we're, we're planning to keep the existing trees, um, all around to, to create a buffer, um, between the project and the neighborhood, and that will happen on all four sides. Um, the soccer field down in the bottom left corner there, which is on the north, um, we'll have some, uh, trees around it, but it will be, you know, visible to, uh, you know, motorists and walkers, you know, just people, um, using turkey hill and rice road. So, um, the buildings, as I said, are, are, are planned to be phased. Um, they are positioned so that they meet the zoning setback requirements. And, um, I just want you to know that the, the project is proposed to be a hundred percent compliant. The buildings parking and use satisfy all the requirements of the zoning bylaws. Um, we know we've, um, we've got phased construction and we believe that each of the buildings as they happen in, in period, different, um, periods of time will, will, um, take approximately 18 months to build. Um, but like I said, that will happen over, um, uh, different periods of time, um, over the years. So building a, the church, uh, is two and a half stories. It's approximately 35,000 square feet. Um, we have ground level, uh, which, uh, has a function hall and service spaces. Um, there is a, a kitchen and a bakery down there. Um, there are bathrooms and lots of storage on the main level. Um, you, uh, need to get to that via the bridal stairs on the front of the building, which is pointing west or down on the page. And once you enter in through the front doors, uh, you have some service spaces, uh, to your left and to your right with elevators and stairs. And then you enter into the central nave followed by the, um, the, um, the, um, the author. Um, you can make your way to building B when building B comes online, uh, from this level. Um, and so, um, on that, that level, you have, um, uh, classrooms and also, um, you, you will move into the, the left-hand portion of that where there would be, um, additional, uh, classrooms. Uh, and on the second level, the upper level, there is a, um, a gym or a basketball court, uh, and back over on the left-hand side of that there is, um, there's senior housing. If you move to the bottom building, there is, this is the diocese center, so there is a function hall on the main level. Um, it, uh, two is, uh, two and a half, two stories, sorry. Um, it's about 24,000 square feet. And I'm sorry, I didn't mention the, the B and C, uh, size, but that's, that's about 60,500 square feet. So back down to building, uh, C at the bottom, um, uh, roof height is 35 feet as is the roof height on building B and C. Um, and it, building C also has, uh, some, uh, three basic sleeping quarters for visiting, um, uh, leaders of the church, um, and other support spaces. So surrounding the, uh, the, the building complex, you have parking on the left, um, and then small one in the front, which is on the west side and one on the east side. Uh, we are meeting the, uh, number of parking spaces, which is one to three, that would give us, um, 190 spaces for our 570 applicants or occupants. Sorry. Um, uh, let me see. So in terms of site access, uh, we come in, uh, through the main driveway in the front, which is just below the church. It's on the west side. Um, and you have the option of parking either on the right-hand side, which is the south. If you're going to the church, um, the parking just below building C is, uh, for the diocese center. And then on the left-hand side, um, you have, uh, more parking for, uh, building B and C. Um, there used to be, uh, three driveways to, uh, this complex, uh, the existing complex, which there are now. Um, and we are eliminating one and we're moving the main driveway, um, uh, to the south, uh, about 30 feet. So it aligns with the front of the church. Um, the driveway on the left used to exit out onto the foot of Turkey Hill. And now it is on Rice Road as well. It is an exit only, and you can only travel, uh, north on that, uh, out of that driveway. You cannot turn left and, and move south. Um, the main driveway, you have the option of going either direction. Um, so total lot coverage, um, we are under the 20% um, requirement. I believe we're at about 18%. Um, the, let me see, the height number of stories meet the requirements for, um, for, uh, B and C. Um, the towers on the church are taller, but, um, according to the Wayland bylaw 198.701, uh, I believe, um, we are allowed, our church, uh, spires in towers to, um, to, to travel that height, to be that height. Um, let's see what else we have. So the landscape design, as you can see here, um, is, uh, is, is pretty green, um, on top of all the perimeter trees that are to remain. Um, we are, as you can see, removing quite a few trees, but we are trying to replace them. Um, according to the Wayland, um, tree replacement, uh, guidelines, we meet that, um, through the use of both trees and shrubberies. Um, we have, uh, we have trees in, in our islands as well. Um, and also in our courtyard and, and other, um, uh, places that we feel are best used to block sun and, um, work, uh, towards our passive solar. Um, in terms of, uh, passive solar, um, we've oriented the buildings, um, into the hillside, uh, and with, with, with a building this size, it's, it's hard to keep the large windows, uh, you know, to, uh, to the north, uh, obviously. Um, but we feel like we've done a good job of, of working with the, uh, the existing landscape. Um, and with active solar, we're planning on using, um, photovoltaic panels on top of both, um, the B and C buildings. So, um, we feel like we're, we're being responsible in that manner. Um, I know there's a lot of concern about, uh, lighting in a neighborhood like this, but we have, um, we have hired, um, Burrow Happel to do a lighting study, uh, for the site. And, um, we've done, um, uh, studies for not only the parking lot, but for the building. Although the lighting has not been designed yet, as we're only going through the site plan, uh, process, um, we are looking at, uh, one to two foot candles throughout the parking lot and similar, uh, light levels that emanate through the, the, through the windows, uh, that spill out onto the grounds that surround the building.
Um, in turn, but we also had Burrow Happel do an acoustic study. Um, we were concerned about noise, uh, coming from, uh, both, um, uh, vehicles as well as, um, building, uh, mechanics. And the plan is for the church to locate, um, uh, the mechanical units, uh, on the site in a, um, enclosed, uh, uh, place that makes the most sense. We have not located that just yet. Um, we will also utilize the the roofs of, uh, B and C and share the, the roof space with the, um, with the solar panels for those mechanical systems and they will be screened. Uh, let me see. I believe, uh, also with the last thing that I want to talk about too, is there's a, we've, we've had a traffic study, an extensive traffic study, uh, done, uh, for the site, um, that basically compared the existing conditions with the proposed conditions. And, um, um, it was a comprehensive, uh, traffic study, um, that basically determined that the project can, uh, can be accommodated with, um, existing roadway capacity and meet, uh, minimal impact for, uh, traffic along rice road. Um, as I stated about the access points to, um, to the parking, uh, we have, uh, uh, minimized those points, um, to, uh, increase safety. Um, and we have now, uh, like I said, uh, what is it? Um, 190 spaces. So, um, that pretty much sums up my, uh, introduction to the project. And I guess if you have any questions, we're here to, to answer them. Um, I'll ask the rest of the board, uh, to proceed first. I have a number of questions. Um, who would like to go first on the board? I just want to, can you give a little bit more detail on the housing that you have there? Is it all going to be affordable and how large are the units just out of curiosity? So, I don't know if Miguel is, is on the, uh, the line and can speak best about, um, the intentions for the, for the housing. Hey, good evening, everybody. Can you hear me? Yeah. Um, so, thank you so much for, uh, uh, reviewing this tonight. So, uh, so we have, uh, the, the Coptic Church has been in the Boston area for about 60 years or so, and we have quite a few seniors that are really unable to come to church, right? So, the senior housing, uh, these are small units. They're either one bedroom or studio. Uh, the expectations is that most of the people occupying those will be, uh, church members. However, it is not limited to church members, so it is going to be open to the community, but practically speaking, we think a large percentage of those would be, uh, you know, from the Coptic community wanting to be closer to, uh, to the services being offered by the church. Would that count towards our inventory, Annette? It depends on how they think they're setting it up and whether it, in fact, is an exempt use. Oh, right, right, right, right. And so, we'll get into that later with their lawyer, I assume. Yeah. Okay. So, I think Jonathan is better able to address that question. Thank you. And I'm happy to do that now or wait, whatever. Um, if you, well, I'd really, let's do some other stuff first because that could be a little more contentious. Um, are there any other questions from the board and Robin? Hi, sorry, I was muted. Um, so I have a couple of questions, a lot about the housing, but we'll get to that later. Uh, I'm just going to kind of work backwards in terms of lighting. So, you don't intend to light the dome or the towers at night because that would certainly be, uh, inconsistent with dark sky and very intrusive for the neighborhood. So, do you intend to light the dome and the towers or not? So, the plan is to have, um, some lighting in there, but the plan is also to have them on a time clock, um, so that they're not, uh, shining all night long. Uh, and I don't know exactly what the proposed hours are for that. You had midnight in the application. I'm sorry? The application referred to midnight. Okay. I think that that is, um, negotiable, you know, um, but that's not for me to say. Okay. Um, so that was one concern. Uh, you would talk about that exit to the north and that you have, um, moved the exit and you're only going to allow people to travel north from there. Um, I would have some concerns that if people are leaving that new exit and traveling north, they're going to make it very difficult for people to get out of Turkey Hill Road at certain times of day. How are you going to deal with that? That's going to be quite a conflict.
Um, I'll have to talk with our traffic consultants to, um, better understand the, the best ways to handle that. Okay. Um, and the traffic study was done, uh, when school was not in session in June and July. So that probably doesn't represent the actual traffic the rest of the year on rice road. So is that going to be redone at a time of year when there's normal traffic on the road and when your congregation attendance is normal? Well, the heaviest flows in times of use for the, for this church is, is during the weekend. Right. But in June and July, I would imagine you have the fewest parishioners coming to services compared to October. Um, I personally can't speak to that, but if I, if I could, uh, if just, um, since, uh, MDM transportation. Oh, I'm sorry, Madam Chair. My name is Jonathan Sulferstein. I'm counsel for the applicant. Um, MDM transportation conducted the TIA, the traffic impact assessment. Uh, we didn't anticipate getting into the, the weeds on the traffic study at this introductory meeting, but we certainly, and so MDM is not here. We certainly do anticipate having them, um, at a, at least one future meeting. And, and one of the items I anticipated we would be discussing tonight would be sort of a path forward and scheduling and, and, and finding out when, uh, you would like us to have MDM here. So we're obviously happy to do our best in, in addressing those types of questions, but I suspect that you'd be better served by us taking notes and, uh, having MDM ready to, uh, address them when they're before you, uh, at a future hearing session. I will say that, um, um, whether it's traffic assessments conducted during COVID or during summer hours, they're very standard, uh, and accepted professional practices among transportation engineers to account for changes in condition because you can't always pick when, you know, the busiest time of year. And so I suspect that MDM is going to be able to tell you that they accounted for those types of variables in a standard way. But if that's not the case, then obviously we're happy to address it. Okay. Um, from the plans, it wasn't completely clear to me. Um, are there retaining walls that are within the setback areas, particularly to the south and east side of the, of the, um, site? So the, the high part of the site is the east side primarily, and the building foundations, um, will be designed as, as such, um, to retain that land. Um, but there are no, uh, retaining walls that are just, uh, out there to hold back, um, uh, you know, earth, uh, they're used for the building foundation. If I may, uh, Sean Malone Oak Consulting Group, I'm the civil engineer for the project. Um, just to clarify, um, there is a, uh, retaining wall along the southeastern portion of the property line right there. Thank you, Naomi. Um, and that is within the setback. And the reason that we need that wall is because we have this fire lane around the back of the building required by the fire department and with the grades as, as they are, we do need the retaining wall to, to accommodate that. Okay. So, but that is in the setback area. It is. Okay. Um, do you know if the, uh, I saw the letter from the fire chief today, so it doesn't look like you've gotten too far in the process with him. Have you discussed with him whether that access road can be gravel or if it needs to be a hard surface? Yes. We've had, uh, several meetings with the assistant chief and one meeting with the assistant chief and chief, um, to discuss this plan. I have not reviewed their comments in depth, but, uh, based on our last meeting, my understanding is they were, they were comfortable with what we're presenting as gravel. Okay. Um, the soccer field, will there be a fence around the soccer field and will that be in the setback area? Yes, there will be a fence around it. And some of that will be in the setback. Is that correct? Uh, if you can bring up the plan again, um, Naomi, I, I believe that it is in, in the setback. Yes. Yes.
Yeah. I think it is in a couple places. Yeah. Um, and then lastly, you talked about how you're leaving so many trees on the site. Um, can you tell me exactly how many large trees you're leaving on the site? I counted 10. Um, I, I can't tell you how many are actually being left there. Um, I'd have to, I have to go back and look at the, um, survey that we had done. Yeah. We, Robin, we haven't, we haven't done the calculation for how many we've left. We've done the calculations for removals and replacements, but I will just point out that within this front section of the property as it abuts Rice Road, we're leaving, um, more than 10 trees in, in that area. So yeah, I guess other than on Rice Road on the backside, other than Rice Road, I, I counted from the tree plan, I counted 10 trees that are being left and that was it other than on Rice Road. Uh, yeah. And I, I haven't done that calculation, but again, we, we were doing the couch calculations for replacements based on the, the, the tree replacement regulations. Okay. Um, I think that's all I have for now. Next. Okay. Is there anybody else? Ira, not Ira, um, Larry, or. Oh, I'm good. Uh, thank you for the presentation. You're welcome. Jesse. Uh, I, so seeing just such a big expansion like this, um, from what it is now to, to, to, to what the proposed plan is in its final state, like my concerns go to drainage, water, wastewater, um, septic. And I see that all outlined here and I know that our DVW friends have weighed in on all of that. I just wanted to make sure that, um, we discussed that at least and, and, and ensure that there's proper plans for all of that. At some point too, I did see, it looked like Robert might've tried to count trees that are there now versus trees that are in the plan. And that's, that's a little out of balance, balance too. So, um, to Robin's point, definitely want to see more on that. Um, I'm concerned about the parking, uh, or not the parking, the driveway that you're moving from Turkey Hill to the front. If you can only exit north and people want to go south, but you've got a lot of people in there and they just want to get out, I think it's likely that they'll pull into Turkey Hill and turn around. How are we going to prevent that? I'm not sure how to speak about that. As, um, as Jonathan, uh, stated, I think that we need, um, to hear, uh, from MDM on that. Okay. Well then just put it on the list of, of things, if you don't mind. Thank you. Um, the 18 months to build each building, what is your overall time duration from, uh, the beginning of construction to the end? Uh, I think that's still being determined because there are, um, three, uh, separate buildings. I think the church, uh, needs to determine, um, you know, what is, what works for, for them. Um, the first building, the church, um, wants to, I, I, I think happen, you know, as soon as they can do that. Um, but the remaining two buildings, um, that would, um, that'll be determined by, by them and, um, their abilities to do that. Um, our, our regulations talk about, um, how long a site plan is good for and the steps that you have to take in there. So we're going to need to understand what it is that you're talking about and what the duration is. Okay. Um, you're using solar, uh, panels on the B and C buildings, but the B and C buildings aren't going to be built right away. So it's conceivable that technology, depending on what your timeline is, that technology may change during that timeframe. Um, and you're asking us essentially for an approval now. Um, so you need to think about that as well. Um, when I read the, the traffic study, it appeared to me that it was only looking at phase one. If I'm wrong, I'd like somebody to correct that. But if that is all that is being looked at, then it really isn't a sufficient study to say that there won't be backups, uh, coming in and out of the property.
Um, I think you should think about the setback issue. Um, soccer field, um, although it's nice to have, uh, and, uh, probably had something to do with keeping your kids happy. Um, isn't necessarily as strictly religious use. Um, and I think you should think about keeping out of the setback areas and think about the lighting. Uh, I don't think that the neighbors would be happy to have lights in the towers until midnight. So I think you need to have a more realistic approach to that. Um, also think about where it is that you're planning on putting signage that would be visible from the roadway and let us know where that is.
The current plan for the church sign is to, there is one by the main entrance, uh, presently. And the plan is to reuse that sign and go, um, back towards, uh, back at the main entrance, the main entrance. Thank you. Um, just want to pull out a few of the, uh, other documents. While you're looking at that on the lighting, um, I noticed walking through town center that, uh, Unitarian church and the public safety building are being lit from the ground up, um, in purple. Uh, I'm not sure if we always do that, but no, we don't. It's just for Robert. There's a, I forget what exactly what purpose is, there's a, there's a special month for the purple. It's this month. I believe it's for the opiates. It's only for the opiates. Yeah. I don't know what time they turn off those lights. They're not on real late. Um,
I guess we should get into the housing a little bit. Um, and I'd like you to explain to us, um, the, how you charge for them, um, whether you're thinking of making them, um, um, SHI acceptable or just what your program is. So I'll, I'll start off, um, and again, might want to answer some of the details. I don't know anything about anticipated rents or, um, whether any of the units would, um, would be restricted, um, such as to be countable on the SHI. Um, I will say that the intent as Maget indicated of these units is to address an ongoing problem that the church has been experiencing for years where, um, people who are members of the church are traveling from an hour or more away. Many of them are elderly, um, either no longer drive or aren't comfortable driving at night. It's been, uh, um, real impediment to attendance at services and other religious functions and church functions. What the church has been doing is, um, running a shuttle service to go and pick people up from different towns, bring them to church. Um, that's obviously, uh, not sustainable. It keeps these people in a car for a long time while different people get picked up, um, all over, um, the region. And so the intent of the, these small housing units is, uh, to have an opportunity for people who frankly can't afford to live in Wayland, but are members of the church, want to have better access to the church, to the community, um, to the services being offered to be able to live on site, which if anything is going to, um, reduce traffic, uh, during the peak periods of the church's church, uh, traffic generation, um, and that these, um, members of the church would then have better access and better ability, um, to attend religious functions without, and, and substantially reducing the burden on church staff and volunteers to drive all over the state, picking people up. Um, um, and, and so that's the intent of these units. Um, we get indicated that, um, these, some of these units are, you know, that are not occupied at any given time by members of the church, um, might be made available to the community as a whole. That's really viewed as a public benefit, something the church would offer. It doesn't need to do that. Um, but this will be sort of a unique opportunity. If there are units available, it would be at least a lowercase affordable option for a single person or maybe a couple, um, to, uh, have a place, an affordable place to live, uh, in town. So we're open to doing that. We don't have to do that. As I said, this is really geared towards, um, facilitating members of the church, being able to participate in church functions. So at some point in time, you might not have as many elderly people that you have this issue with and you're building 24 units. So I'd like to understand, um, what the plan is when you don't and where those people would park and how that then would fit under the Dover amendment. So, um, I think it fits under the Dover amendment because it is inextricably intertwined. It is allowing people, and, and Magenta can speak to this. I think it's frankly, not consistent with the history of the church in this location, um, to suspect that there's going to be anything less than, uh, the current demand. Um, because the church's intent experience goals is to, uh, keep parishioners who are in the area, uh, as members of the church, as long as possible. And as they age, um, they're gonna want access to those units. And so, um, I don't, uh, I don't see any reason to believe that there's going to be a reduction in demand for elderly, um, population among church members. But again, can you speak to sort of over the last 20 years? Um, have you seen no great shifts in that demographic? Yeah. So, so just historically, right. They, they, the Coptic community started in Massachusetts probably around the early seventies, right? So a lot of the people that are going to be making use of, of these, of this housing are people that immigrated to the U S you know, Coptic members of the church that came in the seventies or eighties, right? So they're now in their sixties and so forth, right? Um, the first church, Coptic church was set up in Massachusetts around 1991. Today, I believe there are 10 Coptic, uh, Orthodox churches in Massachusetts. So, uh, over the last, you know, 30 some years, the number have gone from one to, you know, 10. So it's a, you know, a tenfold increase. And obviously as the generation ages, the need for, you know, senior housing will also increase with that. Right. So we don't really see that number going down. Actually, we see it going up, not down. Right. Just based on the pipeline of, you know, individuals that are, you know, today in their fifties who are in 15 years are going to be needing these services. There is way more than we can accommodate at, uh, at, uh, at the 24 proposed units. Thank you. Um, and as to the, oh, I'm sorry. I was just going to answer quickly your question about parking. Oh yeah. We'll answer that and then I'll go further. Sure. So, um, these are members of the church, the parking demand, parking requirements calculated based on seats in the church. These are people who who you have said that. And that we got, I'm asking you when you don't have church members and you open it up to the public or whatever, what again, that's, we don't have to do that. Uh, well, I'm not asking you, I'm not trying to discourage you. I'm just asking how you have thought through that. I think if, and when that we get to that point, we're going to see that as is very often the case, parking requirements in zoning bylaws, um, require vastly over parked, um, facilities. And I think you're going to see that parking utilization is probably going to be much lower. If we're having a situation where the parking lot is full all the time, then we probably wouldn't do that. Probably wouldn't do what? Wouldn't open it up to non-church members. Okay. Um, I'm going to ask if you would prepare, um, a memo for us explaining why this falls under the Dover amendment, because we're having difficulty with the housing trying to under, I think most of us are trying to understand how that particular piece, um, fits under the Dover amendment. Certainly. Um, are there any other questions from the board? I'll open it up to the public now. Um, I hope you keep your comments, uh, concise, listening to the things that we've already spoken about. Um, I know that we've received notices or comments from the public, primarily about the height of the towers, the, uh, lighting coming from the towers, the traffic on the roadway, uh, and the cutting of trees. Um, so we know those issues. And if there are other, you're certainly welcome to mention them, but please don't dwell on them. If there are other issues, we'd really appreciate that. So raise your hand and we'll call on you in series, uh, Dennis Murphy, please state your name and address. Uh, good evening, Madam chair, members of the board. Uh, my name is attorney Dennis Murphy. Uh, I represent the Turkey Hill, uh, uh, village, uh, board, and I'm, uh, grateful for the opportunity to provide some preliminary comments on the, uh, site plan review. Um, hopefully that my summary can streamline things and you won't have to hear from, uh, many different people on the same issue. Um, we, we share many of the concerns that the board has already articulated, including, uh, uh, the screening, the landscape plan, the deforestation of trees. Um, I have more questions than comments at this point. And my first question is whether or not there's a lot of information. And I wonder if the board intends to engage peer reviewers to advise you on technical matters, like the traffic study, the stormwater report, acoustics, uh, thank you for that. And I, I would, I have one request on behalf of, uh, the Turkey Hill folks. If, if you could include in your scope of peer review and assessment of that landscaping plan, um, and in particular, uh, the, the screening that borders the Turkey Hill Village property, uh, because that's a great concern to those folks. Thank you. Uh, next, uh, Sylvia Diaz. Hi, Annette. Hi, everybody. Um, I'm not going to dwell in your, state your address, Sylvia. That's correct. Uh, Sylvia Diaz, one brandy wine, Turkey Hill Village. Um, we still, I still have a lot of questions that, well, you know, Sean and everybody else was talking, they haven't filled in the blanks and I have about the number of trees they will actually, and shrubs, they will actually be replanting, um, you know, the, the, the, uh, screening on rice road or whatever. Can we send you Annette for, um, to you a list of those questions to be clarified as opposed to taking time here? You can send them to Robert Hummel, the town planner, copy the planning board, and he will send them on to the applicant. Okay. Thank you. So we don't take more time from your busy schedule already. Thank you. Um, Arlene Chase. Arlene Chase, 10 Astra, part of Turkey Hill Village. I think I don't have questions right now because the information is incomplete. Um, when will the next meeting be? We'll have to talk about that when we're done with public comment. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Uh, Matt Lineweber. Can you unmute yourself, Mr. Lineweber and speak? Thank you. Matt Lineweber. I live at 802 Mysterio Way in the Meadows. Um, I have just some general comments and I think applied to the Dover Amendment. I am not an attorney, uh, by no means. Um, but the, the issues, the issues that will face us in regard to the Dover Amendment, um, I don't believe are as black and white as we've, uh, sort of articulated. There's a lot of case laws that go, uh, many ways on the Dover Amendment. And it's my understanding that, you know, in the Dover Amendment, um, we can impose, we, we can impose reasonable restrictions on neighborhood combat, compatibility. All right. And I hope that, um, the architects, uh, and the church are, are really, really looking at that. Um, Rice Road, as we know, is a designated scenic road. And, you know, what's reasonable on Route, on Route 20 and Route 30 and Route 126 and 27 is not reasonable on Rice Road on that. Uh, that's number one. Um, I want to talk a little bit about, uh, the traffic and the safety. Um, Rice Road is a dangerous road. Anyone who's walked on it and anyone who's been on a bicycle on it knows how treacherous it is. Um, I know there is another Coptic church at the other end of Rice Road. I don't know what the relationship to this Coptic church is, but I will tell you on a, and, and the scope of that, the scope of the size of that Coptic church, uh, the physical scope, I don't know about the membership, but the scope of that, that, that, the size of that footprint seems much smaller than this footprint. If you drive, uh, there on a Sunday, it's the poster child for congestion on that. And, you know, this, this is going to be a bigger, uh, bigger, uh, project than that, um, in an area, in, in, in a roadway that is not anywhere near what that other end of Rice Road is. Um, so I hope that we, we, we look at that very, very seriously. Um, the Dover amendment allows, uh, for reasonable restrictions for traffic conditions, and as I said, neighborhood compatibility and scale. Um, and in regard to the, the two towers, um, you know, if you look at the religious institutions in, in, um, Wayland, uh, I suspect that other than the Unitarian church, nobody's going up that high. And I just find it interesting that we have to manifest our faith, uh, based on height of a, a spire. I don't, I, I, I really don't understand that. Um, and you know, that being said, uh, as Annette, as Annette mentioned, um, soccer field and housing, I don't know if that's totally consistent with the Dover amendment. So, you know, as I said, as our shared scriptures say to love your neighbor, um, I hope that, uh, this project will show your neighbor some love. Thank you. Uh, Jeff Worthington.
Yes. Good evening. Uh, Jeff Worthington, 1602 Wisteria Way. Uh, I wanted to add, uh, some additional comments about the lighting, uh, and requests that a peer review of the lighting plan also be included, uh, to ensure compliance with really the five principles for responsible outdoor lighting, uh, as put forth by dark sky international and the illuminating, illuminating engineering society. The overview document that has been provided on the town website, uh, I think provide is somewhat insufficient and in some ways, uh, uh, misleading in terms of the usage of dark sky compliance. So I know the lighting plan hasn't been developed, but I would encourage that there's more to it than luminaires that have a full cutoff. I think there needs to be greater attention, uh, paid to, uh, the use of motion sensors, uh, timers and other devices. I would note that dark sky compliance for particularly for the parking lot, uh, has to do also with the pole height. I would point out that the current church parking, the poles are very low and the lights are off when there were no, uh, services going on. The document that was provided online has parking lots going 50% dim or off at midnight. I think, uh, it should be more in line with their off or significantly dimmed when there were no activities. I don't know why. I mean, this is not Walmart. The lights do not parking lot nights do not need to be on till, uh, midnight. So anyway, many other points in that, but I know the plan hasn't been developed, but it would encourage, uh, peer review for full dark sky compliance. Thank you. Uh, Beth Rainer. Beth Rainer, uh, Christina, uh, Turkey Hill Village. I had a question, uh, regarding the parking lot phasing, uh, in conjunction with the phases of the project. My understanding from one of the previous, uh, committee meetings was that the third phase might not start for 10 years from now. Um, and my question is to, to the applicant, um, when will the parking be built in relation to each phase? So if you're building the first building, are you putting in all the parking at that first, uh, at that first, um, portion of the project? Or is the phasing of the parking going to be consistent with the amount of buildings that you have on the site? It seems like a lot of parking to put in at the beginning when you're only going to have one building is, is my thought. Thank you. Um, the applicant can answer that if they'd like right now. Miguel, do you want to take that or can I, I can answer that. Um, so the, the occupant load for the church is about 570, uh, occupants and we need to support, um, parking for the, the people coming to, uh, church. Um, the other buildings, because they're related to, uh, the church, um, uh, will be a part of that parking, um, number. So, um, Jonathan, if you have anything, uh, different to say about that, um, maybe you can add that, but no, I, I was just going to say that, um, the, we're not, we didn't choose this number out of the blue where we chose it to comply with the requirements of the zoning bylaw. Um, and those requirements relate to the church itself because that's going to, at any given time, that's going to be the largest generator of parking demand. Um, people who are working at the church in the administrative offices in the front building are going to be in church when churches in session, people who are, um, going to Sunday school or going to the youth center. Again, they're not going to be, these are, these aren't additive uses, they're complimentary uses. Um, and so, um, the buildings B and C are not going to add traffic demand because the highest possible traffic demand demand is going to be the church itself. And that goes to, uh, another question that I think someone raised about the, uh, scope of the traffic study. Again, MDM can respond to that, but the fact of the matter is that, um, um, when, when there are not church services taking place, the demand of those other two buildings is going to be a small portion of what the domain generated by the churches. So that's why they don't require additional traffic. You're not going to have. That's a, that's enough for right now. Thank you. I appreciate it. Um, I'm going to take three more public comments. I hope they'll be short, and then we're going to go on to scheduling. I, Karen, I have three here, Karen Blumenfeld, Betty Bussell, and Nikki G. Karen. Hi, Karen Blumenfeld, 113 Oxbow Road. Very quick comment. Um, I had the privilege of meeting people from the Coptic Church in Weyland and the Coptic Church in Natick. Um, the members of this church, they are lovely people, good neighbors, and valuable members of our community. Um, and, you know, Weyland aspires to be a welcoming community, and I hope we can demonstrate our welcoming nature even as we ask them questions about the details of their proposal. Thank you. Thank you. Betty Bussell. Thank you. Um, Betty Bussell. I live at 8 Essex, um, Turkey Hill Village. I'm also chair of the Turkey Hill Village Board of Managers. Um, many of the issues that have already come up tonight are certainly of concern to us. Um, I would just want to comment on, uh, a couple things that, um, that concern us that necessarily haven't come up just yet. Uh, that includes our understanding is that one of the septic systems is going to be under one of the parking areas right next to Turkey Hill Road, uh, which makes that, uh, a concern for us. I want to also talk again about the parking. Um, why we like having the church next door. We have already had issues with parking on Turkey Hill Road. People parking along the grass, turning around, uh, if there truly is that right turn only, people are not going to be able to get out of Turkey Hill Village. And the one other thing I wanted to mention that hasn't come up yet is that, uh, that road that we're talking about, that kind of the emergency road on the one side of the church that goes into the trails for Turkey Hill. That is also the only other, um, route. It's an emergency route for people to also get out of Turkey Hill Village. It's our only other means of egress. So that road area, um, our perspective really still needs to be there since that's our only other method. Um, we've had emergency vehicles up there before, uh, when issues have happened. So I just wanted to point that out as well. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, and Nikki, Nikki. Hi there. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Um, yes, I'm, I'm Nicole Goodwin. I'm at one Turkey Hill Road. I, um, you know, I won't, I echo a lot of the concerns, the community shares, and, and I also respect, um, the church wanting to, to renovate their sacred space. I, my biggest concern, um, I guess, selfishly is I'm the, probably the closest property that abuts on the, I guess it would be the, that the east side, right on the back. And I guess I, to, to echo our, our attorney, I just would love to, um, be able to negotiate, uh, a stronger buffer zone of old growth trees, especially on the posterior of my property. I'm on the standalone condo that literally looks like there's really not going to be many trees left behind. Um, you know, and, and, and also to obviously to the north, which kind of shades the, uh, what people can see from the other communities, but I directly will be affected and, and hoping that can be negotiated to be a, a thicker buffer zone of, of old growth trees. That would be greatly appreciated. Um, thank you. Uh, with regard to that, um, that's something that your, your attorney would have to, uh, work with their attorney on. It's not something that the, in, in the particulars that you're talking about. Um, it would be great if you worked it out and we will deal with it as well as we can. Um, I think right now we need to talk about scheduling. So Robert, um, yes, do we have all of our peer review consultants under contract? We do not. What do we have and what don't we have? We have, uh, DDT doing this civil engineering and, and I did talk to him today actually. And he said he's going to, his goal is to have his, his review done by next Wednesday or by next, by next Thursday at the latest traffic engineer. We had someone chosen, but we have not received a check, uh, from, from the church. So we have not started that yet before we can get that started. So I already requested them to send us to bring in a check in so we can get that started as soon as possible. Okay. Um, our next planning board meeting is scheduled for October the 29th. Yeah, we do have the large meeting room booked from five to 10 o'clock. Okay. Not the, not the COA. It's already booked the COA. Okay. Large meeting room booked if you need it. Okay. So for the next meeting, we're going to do an in-person and, um, via zoom. The public had requested that and that's fine with us. Um, so, uh, if we get the DGT stuff, what's the outside date that he, the date that he was doing? 22nd, 23rd. 22nd, 23rd. So if we got something over to the project team on the 22nd or 23rd, um, would you be able to turn it around so that we could have a meeting on October the 29th? Uh, I, I would answer that by saying we can discuss it with the team here and then let Robert know, um, we have to schedule the meeting, um, tonight. We can't, we don't have that kind of leeway. So, Madam Chair, if I might, I would suggest, uh, continuing it to your next meeting. And if we're unable to receive and respond to the peer review, uh, to have enough new to discuss, then we can always ask for continuance. Yes. The issue becomes, we have about three other large matters and we're trying to stagger them so that we don't have you all on the same night if we can. Um, and so, um, the next meeting after that, we're having a forum on November the 12th, um, but we could fit it in as well. Um, we might, we could, we could, we could, we do have it booked with the COA booked, uh, between five and seven on November 12th, uh, before the, before the public forum. We could just, just in case, just in case the board want to meet at six o'clock. And what time is, okay. Um, again, it's up to you, um, Mr. Silverstein, but we don't have, we have so much, uh, on our plate that we can't just, um, for go ahead. I understand. Um, obviously this is, this is probably more Sean Malone question, I suspect. Um, but if we don't get peer review comments until the 23rd or 24th to be able to turn around a meaningful response and have it to you in sufficient time for board members to look at it. I'm just, I don't want to, I don't want to pressure you. That's why. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. So, um, would you prefer to do it on November the 12th? Yeah. I think that's probably safer. Okay. So Robert, what time is the forum on the 12th? At seven o'clock. Seven. Is that correct, Robin? Seven o'clock? I can't hit Robin. You're sorry. I believe so, but it's whatever the agenda calls for it. So it might be seven, 10, seven, 15, whatever. Yeah. Um, would you guys be available and the board, first of all, would the board be available? Um, and it would probably, if we might have to be a little earlier than six, but would you be available at six or a little earlier if we had to do it? Jesse, Larry. Sorry, what day is that, please? The 12th. Fortunately, I'll be out of town. Yeah. Sorry. Um, I, I would, I would be open myself. Larry? Yep. March for me. Okay. And Jesse, you can watch the tape. Yeah, that's fine. And if you have questions, you can give them to Robert ahead of time. Sure. Um, just want to check on something, November the 12th. Um, so, um, for those of you who are available, could you start at 5 30, do you think or not? Yeah, that's okay. If that's too tight, let me know. Robin, is that okay for you or not? You're mute. It wasn't unmuting when I hit the space bar. Uh, that should be fine. Okay. And Robert? Yeah. You'd be okay. Okay. So why don't we schedule it for 5 30 on Wednesday, the 12th? Uh, hybrid, hybrid, correct? Uh, no, in person. Oh, you said we could do it in person. Oh, hybrid. Sorry. Yes. Be the public person. Yes. In person and zoom. Got it. Yeah. The, the, the, the power for me is also in hybrid too. So, okay. What, um, what's to dictate which way I, as an individual should go, you should be in the, in the audience and with us in person. Well, thanks. The board should be there in person. Um, the, um, we need, uh, an extension of time. And I guess the question for you, Mr. Silverstein is, um, we need to be able to get the peer reviewer for traffic and we need to do that immediately. Um, and we don't want to hold you up and we want to make sure that we move through this in an expeditious process, but, um, I think we're going to need more than one more hearing and then we'll need time to write the decision. I suspect so. Um, I, I don't think, uh, any extensions are, are going to be issues. Um, and Maked, um, can you get the check-in for the traffic peer review? Yes. Yes. I apologize. It was supposed to be in, but I think somebody forgot it at home. So we're able to bring it in. So if he, if he, if he's going to get it this week, then I'll, then I'll get, I'll ask them. You'll get that tomorrow, Robert. I apologize for that. Okay. Uh, so our deadline right now is, let me pull it up. Let me just make sure I pull the right one up. Our deadline right now is October 26th. That was 60 days from October, from August 27th. So, um, it will leave up the board. So I'll, I'll, um, unless you have a form, Robert, that you prefer I use, I can just send you written confirmation. Um, and for now, um, 45 days, 45 days, um, extension of that deadline. And if another extension is necessary, which very well might be, that's not going to be an issue. Yeah. Just send me an email, uh, and then we'll use that as a documentation as the, as the request. So 45 days from, uh, what was it? October 26th. That makes it easiest. I'll get that to you right now. Yeah. I think we'll all the, besides that, if there's anything else to discuss, I think we just need a motion to continue to physically continue the hearing. Okay. But Robert, do you have any questions? Uh, not right now. I don't want to hold back because we're in a public hearing. Okay. Um, I, I think that we do need something about the senior housing, uh, because the information that we received tonight was different than, than I understood. And if the housing is being provided to the public, that changes a lot in my head of what, what could be allowed or what would not be allowed under Dover. So, I would like more clarification from my side of what, how this would affect. And then be. Yeah. I'll, I'll provide a memo as requested by the chair, um, well, in advance of the next hearing session. And Robert, um, I think you said that there were some trees that were in the right of way that they were planning on removing. I, I saw some, I saw a few trees. Yeah. I thought I saw them too. And that would require a, a scenic road hearing automatically. Right. Um, just clarification. Because it's not your property. Yes. And that's, this is a scenic road. Um, so I think that there's just some things I can, we can, we can flush out later. Um, also, yeah, I think I might be, oh, you also interested in buffering. I think some more extra buffering would be, would be helpful around the back of the property where you're, you're closer to the residential properties. So it's not much, not much right now is might be, might be helpful. And the questions that you had that you posed to us, Robert, have you shared that with the applicant? Uh, the memo? Yes. I would have to go back and see if I, if I did. I thought I did. And if you, and if you didn't just pick out the questions that you've got and send it to them so that they'll have something to work. I believe I sent them the, all the staff comments and public comments of like last week. Okay. I will send the file comments that came in today, but they weren't like, uh, majorly concerning. Okay. Great. Thank you very much, everyone. Um, so, um, I'd like to make a motion, uh, to, to, uh,
what am I, what's the word, Robert? To continue the hearing. Thank you. To continue the hearing, uh, for the Coptic Church, uh, PB, uh, Oh, 2502, uh, 69 Rice, 169 Rice Road until, um, November the 12th, uh, at 530 PM, uh, hybrid and, uh,
So moved. Thank you. Uh, all in favor? I'll second it. Robin seconded it. Oh, oh, she moved. Sorry. You seconded it. Sorry. Uh, all in favor, Robin. Yes. Ira. Yes. Larry. Yes. Jesse. Yes. Annette. Yes. Um, Magoo, do you have a question? Yeah, so I, there was, uh, there was a request to do an on-site meeting. Um, and. Oh, yes. Right. I want to just remind Robert about that, uh, because he was trying to do the scheduling for it. So, um, wanted to remind him of that action item. Okay. Robert, you can deal with us later then? Uh, yes. Well, I will, I will get back to the end. I have all the, I have all the comments from, all the numbers from the, uh, uh, availability. But I will get, I will reach out to him tomorrow and, and get a time for them for next week or week after. Okay. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. We are now moving on to, and we're a little late, but it's okay. Uh, planning board number 2503, 3745 Waltham Road, the Carroll School site plan approval public hearing. Um, I will open the hearing this evening and Robert, can you bring the people who are? Yes. And one is that, is that also Sean Marlon, he's doing both projects. So he's also here. Robert, I'm having a hard time understanding. I said, I said, Sean Marlon is also the engineer for this part of two. So he's going to be sticking around.
Um, yes, I'm just waiting for the, for the hands second. Okay. Um, hi, Robert. Madam chair, may I just help Robert identify the people? I'm not sure. They're all raising. What was raising their hand? Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Yep. I'm using that.
This is Carrie DeLeo. I'm the owner's project manager. Am I, um, able to share, I have permission, but is it okay if I share screen for a presentation? Yeah. Yes. But I just like to set up the hearing if you don't mind so that everyone understands tonight. This project is, uh, for an expansion of the Carroll school and, um, um, the procedure that we're going to follow this evening is that the applicant will make a presentation. Uh, and, uh, do an overview of the project. Uh, then the board will ask questions. Then we'll open it up for the public, uh, to ask questions. Uh, and then we'll work on scheduling at the end. Um, and just as I did with the last project, I'm going to do it with this project as well. I want to read the requirements of the Dover amendment so that everybody understands what kind of jurisdiction the board has and doesn't have.
Um, Massachusetts general law chapter 48 section three, uh, is the zoning, uh, statute. And, uh, it deals with subjects that zoning may not regulate. Paragraph two of that is known as the Dover amendment, because there was a case that occasioned the passing of this law. And it reads no impertinent part, no zoning ordinance or bylaw shall prohibit, regulate, or restrict the use of land or structures for religious purposes or for educational purposes on land owned or leased by a religious sect or denomination or by a nonprofit educational corporation. Provided, however, that such land or structures may be subject to reasonable regulations concerning the bulk and height of structures and determining yard sizes, lot area, setbacks, open space, parking, and building coverage requirements. Wayland also has its own bylaw to implement the state statute. And it is, uh, 198 dash 601 and six, it sequence, it seek and, uh, 606.3 of that bylaw says when reviewing and acting on a site plan application for the principal use of land or a building or structure for daycare, educational, nursery school, or religious uses that are exempt from regulation under Massachusetts general law, chapter 48, section three, the planning board shall apply reasonable regulations concerning the bulk and height of structures and determining yard sizes, lot area, setbacks, open space, parking, and building coverage requirements as set forth in this zoning bylaw. Except to the extent that the applicant shows that the regulation is unreasonable and unrelated to a legitimate municipal concern and will substantially detract or diminish the applicant's ability to conduct the exempt use. So, uh, so, uh, is it, uh, Ms. DeLeo? Yes. Who's going to do the presentation this evening? Yes. Okay. It's all yours. Wonderful. I'm going to, uh, share my screen. Um, and actually, uh, a better part of the team is going to do most of the speaking. So, uh, can everyone see that? Yes. Okay. Great. So, uh, Chris, uh, I assume you have been let in as well. Yes, I have. And I'm here great. So we will start with you. Okay. All right. Progress. Well, first let me. You're right, Carrie. Yep. Just trying to get the presentation to progress. I'll get there though. Yep. Okay. All right. Well, first, thank you everybody, uh, for the opportunity to present this evening. Uh, I just want to really quickly give you a brief overview of Carol. Um, but before I begin, I just want to note that, uh, Renee Greenfield, the head of school, is also on the call this evening. So two representatives from the school, uh, we're an independent day school. Uh, we're over 50 years old, uh, serving students in K through nine, uh, primarily with dyslexia or other language-based learning differences. We have roughly 450 students spread across three different campuses in Waltham, Lincoln, and Wayland. Wayland, we, uh, uh, started operations in 2016. So this is our newest campus. Uh, we're in the midst of doing long-term planning, uh, with the board to determine how can we support, uh, serving more students with dyslexia, uh, and to give more students, uh, really what they need at this critical, critical time in their development.
Uh, next, I'd like to introduce, uh, briefly the members of the team who are on the call.
So starting with Carrie DeLeo from Scalora, uh, who's advising us in the overarching, uh, objectives of the project. We have Flansburg, uh, Dahi Blair, who will be presenting the, uh, the architectural components. Fuss and O'Neill. We have Ken Cram, who will talk about the, uh, traffic study. Uh, Bill Proya from Reamer-Bronstein, who's advising us from a legal perspective. We have, uh, Sean Malone from Oak Consulting and Mish Crowley from Crowley Cottrell. And at this point, I think, uh, turn it over to Bill.
Thank you, Chris. I'm Madam Chair, members of the board. For the record, I'm Bill Proya, um, counsel for Carroll School this evening. Uh, so just quickly, the current campus, uh, is located at 37, 39, and 45 Waltham Road. It's about a 16-acre site and currently improved with three buildings. Uh, 25,000 square foot, uh, classroom and administration space. So 1,800 square foot administrative building and, uh, small garage, about 800 square feet. That's currently being used by the facilities department. Uh, the proposal, uh, here would be to retain the 25,000 square foot classroom and administration space. Uh, it's commonly known as the Fish Center. It was the original residence on the property. The other small, two smaller buildings will be removed and replaced by, uh, an academic building and classroom space and admin, uh, athletic space that you'll hear more about in a couple minutes. Uh, thank you, Madam Chair, for going through the zoning structure on this. I will not belabor it. I will just say that when the Carroll School began operating in 2016, it did undergo a similar site plan review. At that time, it was administered by the building inspector, I believe, but there was a hearing in front of the planning board as well. At that point, Carroll, uh, agreed to do that. And, uh, I think it was very productive and useful at the time. So it's the same scope of review as you identified. And the last thing I'd point out about the project is that it is designed to comply with all the applicable dimensional requirements under the zoning bylaw. And again, we can get into more of that detail as we go along. And lastly, I just want to acknowledge for everyone, the board and the members of the public that might be listening, the department's staff that, you know, we have received a fair number of letters and comments from departments as well as the neighbors. And, uh, we do appreciate the input we are expecting. We'll have, you know, additional comments, especially from the peer review engineer that has been engaged. And just regarding that, I just want to assure everyone that, you know, we take all the comments very seriously and all the perspectives very seriously and respectfully. And we fully intend to, you know, provide thorough answers to those things. Some questions may be answered tonight during the presentation. Others won't, but we will, you know, vow to follow up on those as thoroughly as we possibly can. And, you know, we consider this a dialogue. It's, you know, with the board, with the neighborhood, with the communities that are involved and that have, you know, taken the time to submit comments and observations about the project. So I just want everyone to know that we're looking at it from that point of view. And we want to hold that, you know, relationship and openness throughout the process. So I thank you for that. And I'm going to hand it off to Dahi Blair from Flansburg to provide some more detail on the site. Sure. So hello, everybody. Good evening. And thank you for supporting us this time tonight, both to the planning board and to the public who are listening. My name is Dahi Blair. I'm the project architect from Flansburg Architects who is responsible for the design of the proposed building here at the Wayland campus. And I'd like to spend just a moment now to kind of look over the existing site to kind of orient everyone as we kind of go further into the process of what we're proposing. On the slide you're seeing now under the existing conditions title, you're seeing a portion of the Wayland campus. As Bill noted in his previous slide, the overall Wayland campus is about 16 acres of space. But for the sake of clarity in the review tonight, we've really cropped the area of the site just down to the area where we're planning the interventions so that you can see in more detail. But just to know that the actual property extends page south. The site is oriented north is up. So the site extends to the south and to the east beyond the crop that's shown in this image. The northern boundary of the site is bounded by Waltham Road which runs kind of east to west across the top of the property there. You can see that it's along that edge is fairly heavily vegetated to provide some visual buffer between Waltham Road and the Wayland campus. And then there's an entry onto the campus kind of dead center to the north where you see the bend in Waltham Road. That's the existing path onto the campus that then connects to the existing parking lot space in front of the building. I think currently there's about 45 parking spots afforded to the school. To the west, where you see kind of a little circular roundabout, that's the existing Fish Center. The existing Fish Center is a residential building that was reconfigured and repurposed into an academic building by Carroll to educate their current enrollment of approximately 50 students in this building. And like they said, like Chris had said, they've been here for about 10 years, that was about 10 years ago when that was done. I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you just said at the end. I'm sorry. Um, the, the Fish Center, uh, currently it was repurposed from Brazil. And then I heard it was your last phrase, uh, was that, um, the, the school has been using the building in this capacity for about a decade. Thank you. Like this, uh, towards the center of the, of the screen, you can see a smaller box building. I think that's the existing pool house. Um, it's approximately 17, 1700 square feet, uh, that is currently used by Carroll, um, for administration, straight of offices, uh, that is slated to be demolished as part of this proposed new building. Um, and then further to the west, you can see another small box building at 37 Waltham Road. That is an existing two-story barn that is used, um, both for the facilities and the, and the maintenance at the school. Um, so, uh, sorry, Carrie, can you, do you mind skipping? I know that you were having a little bit of a hard time moving back and forth in the images, but can you skip ahead to the floor plans so I can start there and then work my way back to the massing? If you could sit closer to the microphone, it might help your, um, The sound poor. I'm sorry if the sound is poor. I can kind of hunch forward. Is this better? Yes. Okay. I'll, I'll sit like this, move a bit more intimate. Um, so, uh, here you're seeing the, the floor plans of the proposed. Development, uh, on the top is the ground floor, the first floor, and then below is the upper level. Um, you know, the, the plans that we've developed here, um, the plans of the massings were developed in close collaboration with the Carroll school. To me, um, a very specific set of learning needs for the Carroll students and to align with the school's pedagogy around, around learning. Um, so we spent a long time kind of developing these floor plans to find the right fit for their school. Um, what we're showing is, um, what we call basically a series of houses. So while the new proposed building is one building, we're showing it kind of separated into kind of separate pieces, uh, separate houses that are each assigned a different academic subject. So you can see, uh, to the far west of the floor plan is a, um, athletics and arts building. Uh, in the center, there is a humanities building that would house the English and history classrooms of, of the Carroll campus. And then, uh, uh, the eastern most new proposed building is a science building that also includes a number of the tutoring rooms that they use for, for a smaller one-on-one or two-on-one or three-on-one learning at the school. Um, with the anticipation that the existing fish center, uh, the classrooms in that space would be, um, reconfigured to be, uh, primarily mathematics and tutoring in that building. So it would essentially have arts, athletics, humanities, science, and math as kind of four nodes along a string that could have all the different, uh, academics within them. Um, um, the, each one of these new buildings is kind of centralized around kind of a main atrium space, um, to provide, uh, and all the classrooms around that so that there could be calm and contained classrooms and focused tutoring room settings arranged around these small central atriums, um, to strike a balance between, uh, uh, the sense of community and the ability to have accountability and monitoring of students in different spaces while also, uh, minimizing the distractions from the learning environment. Um, if you, uh, if you look to the left, I just want to note while we're on this page that the arts and athletics building, um, does have a section, uh, dedicated to dining, uh, for the students. But I just want to note that that dining is, um, bring your own lunch style dining where the students bring their own lunches from home to the, to the site to eat at the school. So while there is a place to eat at the school, there's no plan for any sort of commercialized kitchen or large scale, uh, cooking on site. Uh, rather there's just a small area dedicated for microwaves and a sink to wash up your, your, your lunch boxes, uh, between, you know, before and after, before and after eating. Um, mechanically, um, mechanically there is a basement proposed between the humanities and science pods to provide both, uh, the connections for the plumbing utilities, as well as the energy recovery unit units that would condition those two pods, uh, that happen underground. And then over in the arts and athletics building up on the second level or the mezzanine of the gymnasium level, there is a plan for, uh, the electric room and a mechanical room that would serve that pod. Um, separate to that exterior to that, we have a mechanical pen designated for, uh, the, um, conditioning units required to cool the space that would be enclosed with a cladding material similar to that of the rest of the building, um, that would house, house both that additional outdoor mechanical equipment, as well as the electrical transformer, uh, and, uh, space to, um, enclose trash recycling, um, and the like. Um, and so Carrie, can we go now skip back to the, to the mass things. I can talk a little bit about that. So, um, yeah, thank you. So from the exterior, that approach of kind of assigning smaller atrium spaces to each of the different academic spaces results in a new, a single new building that has three distinct masses that are connected by transparent glass corridors. Um, to kind of break up the massing of the building as a whole. Um, we found that providing, uh, two story building affords the best balance between the overall building footprint and the building height. Um, and we've utilized a flat roof structure to further minimize the overall building height well below the 35 foot zoning requirements. Um, at the front, the project is set back to roughly align with the existing setback. Um, that was provided by the existing fish center, uh, which is in, you know, oh, well, it's over a hundred feet, 140 feet or more, uh, which is well above, uh, the required. 35 or 55 foot setback assigned by the zoning requirements. And also note that on the western portion of the building where the gymnasium is, we have approximately about 110 feet. of setback of setback there, which is beyond the 30 foot setback that's required between for the side yards. Um, that that's the, the, um, the massing in a nutshell. I think from here, we can get kind of boring to the conversations about the site planning. Um, so I'll pass this on to, um, Michelle Crowley. Crowley. Okay. Thank you. Um, hi everyone. Um, I'm Michelle Crowley from Crowley Cottrell, uh, Landscape Architects. Um, and excited to be here tonight to share these drawings. Um, so as dahi just said, uh, you know, this, the new school is designed to extend learning opportunities from the existing fish center. Uh, creating a cohesive connected campus. Students will move between the two buildings and the landscape throughout the day to encourage indoor and outdoor learning. Uh, to walk through the plan. We'll start up in the northwest side where we have expanded the parking lot to accommodate the larger school population. We're using large rain gardens to manage stormwater, which will also serve as a nice landscape feature for the campus. Sean will talk more about the drainage strategy in a few minutes. As we move south, uh, from the parking area, you'll see the main school entry with, uh, pergolas defining the pickup and drop off areas along the sidewalk. Can you point to those or can you not? Um, yeah, Carrie, can you? Are you able to see my, my cursor? Okay. Yeah, I can, I can drive those. So the parking lot expansion, um, can you show where the existing parking is Carrie? So that's the existing parking. Um, and then we've expanded, uh, to the west there. And then as you come around is where the front door is. And just beyond that are sort of pergolas that are where the sort of drop off and pickup zones are, um, moving to the south of the building. Um, when you say pergola, what is that? Oh, uh, just a covered area for like shape structures to, um, in the front there. Thank you. Yep. Um, so at the back of the building, we have, uh, several outdoor spaces that we want to highlight. Um, the terrace right outside the lunchroom includes picnic tables and planters with seat walls where students and staff can gather during lunch and recess. We also have two half courts that can be used for pickup basketball and other play, but the space is flexible. It can also function as an outdoor classroom or performance area with then also direct access to the existing soccer fields. Um, to the right, there's an, what we're calling an academic terrace. Um, and that's for more outdoor learning for both the sciences and the humanities. That's also then, uh, closest to, uh, the fish center. Um, the existing soccer fields to the south will stay as they are. Um, we are adding a reinforced lawn fire lane behind the fish center to improve, uh, emergency access. Um, that's a quick overview of the site plan. Um, I'm gonna move to the next slide to talk about vehicular circulation. So emergency, this is showing emergency vehicles will be able to enter, uh, from the west side or from the main entrance. They can then circulate through the site and travel behind the fish center and exit at the eastern most, uh, driveway. This setup gives clear direct access across the campus for any emergency response. Next slide. So, uh, staff and students and visitors will enter from the main driveway, circulate through the site and exit again at the east drive. We'll take a closer look at an arrival and dismissal in a few slides, but here's a quick overview of parking. Um, we're gonna be providing a total of 118 parking spaces. That includes five accessible spots, 15 short-term visitor spaces, and 10 overflow spaces. Uh, zoning requires 96 spaces. That's 80 for staff plus 5% of total occupancy. So we're comfortably exceeding, uh, what's required. Next slide. Um, no, one more, uh, you jumped too much. Yeah, this looks like the emergency, but this is actually the bus. Um, we've got two separate bus drop offs and pickup areas. The west, uh, bus stop will use be primarily used for, um, like events and team sports. Visiting team sports will drop off there. Um, so buses will enter from the west, circulate through the site, and then exit through the east driveway. Um, the east bus stop is dedicated to the Carroll school buses. Those will enter from the main driveway, circulate through a bus only connector, so they don't have to drive through the parking area and park in their designated area there in front of the fish center. And then they will exit at the east driveway. This setup, uh, separates school bus traffic from parent pickup and drop off, keeping things organized, uh, and safe. Next slide. Next slide. The overall circulation plan is modeled after what's worked well at the Carroll school's Lincoln campus. We studied both daily pickup and drop off as well as larger events to make sure traffic moves efficiently. Student arrivals tend to happen quickly since drop off is staggered over a short window. Uh, dismissal varies a bit more about 35% of students roughly 85. Take the bus about half around 125 will stay for after school programs. So on a typical day, dismissal involves around 125 students, about 40 of those will go by bus and 85 by carpool as well. So this image shows how many cars. Can queue on the site during dismissal. We can hold up to 110 cars, 18 of which are actively picking up at any given time. Cars are released in batches for safety and to keep traffic moving. And staff is stationed in a variety of areas to call the students. Um, and so that they will be ready to get into the cars and then all, uh, 18 cars. Then move out and the next, uh, move in. So it's really moving quickly. So, um, there are roughly 20 days a year when we have a full school dismissal. The image here is static. It shows a capacity of 110, but it doesn't account for how quickly the turnover is, which actually really improves the flow on those busier days. We have a few built in release valves. We can use the west bus loop since there won't be team sports happening those days. That adds space for about 24 additional cars. We can open overflow parking bays, each holding about 20 more cars. And we can also use the fish center loop and stagger dismissal times, uh, if needed. Next slide. So this is the lighting diagram. Um, we've designed the site lighting to balance safety with sensitivity to the surrounding neighborhood. The lighting levels are intentionally lower than a typical parking lot, but evenly distributed to eliminate bright spots and dark areas. All fixtures are dark sky compliant. All fixtures are dark sky compliant. The lumens will be set for comfortable lighting that doesn't spill beyond, uh, the property. Pedestrian lighting in the back is a lower, softer level, and that all the lighting zones are grouped and timed separately. So parking areas will be on one schedule and the rear areas on another. So lights are only on when needed. Next slide. Next slide. So back to the site plan. I just wanted to touch on planting. We're maintaining the existing hedgerows, trees, large shrubs along the perimeter for continued screening. We're also protecting several large trees on the south side of the new building. So the school will immediately benefit from mature shade trees that help scale the building to the site. We're meeting the tree ordinance by replacing the required caliper of trees, replanting nearly 30 new trees, over 400 shrubs and thousands of ground covers and perennials throughout the site and rain gardens. Altogether, it creates a diverse layered planting plan that supports both sustainability and visual interest across the campus. I'm going to now turn this over to Sean, who will walk through the site engineering. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. My name is Sean Malone with Oak Consulting Group. I am the civil engineer for the project. Um, so with respect to drainage and, uh, septic, I'll start with drainage. Um, we did approximately or actually eight deep test pits on this site. Uh, this summer, they went, uh, to about 10 to 12 feet deep. We consistently found very coarse sands, uh, at that sub subsoil layer with, uh, groundwater around 10 feet deep. And this all, this groundwater elevation corresponds to the elevation of a, uh, wetland system that's located on the, uh, abutting property just to the west of the site. Um, so we've designed a, uh, a stormwater system to mitigate the increases and runoff due to, um, additional impervious area on the site. With this site design, we are increasing the impervious area by about, uh, one acre. Um, so we need to find a place to put that stormwater. And with these soils, uh, one of the best options that we have and that we, we found and executed on this site is to infiltrate it back into the ground. So as Misha mentioned at the beginning of our presentation, we do have a, a large surface infiltration bio basin at the center of the site. We also have two subsurface, um, pipe retention systems. This will consist of, uh, large diameter HDPE pipe, uh, that's perforated that will hold the stormwater and infiltrate it back into the ground. Um, the net effect of this design is a decrease in the rate and volume of runoff from the site. Uh, with respect to the septic system, um, this site will, uh, have an increase in the, uh, student staff, students and staff, uh, uh, and will require a new septic system to meet that, that, uh, sewer, sewer load. So we've designed a new Presby system that'll be located at the, the rear of the building as Carrie was just circulating there. Um, this would be in a grassed area in between the, the field and the grass patio behind the existing fish center. Um, and this has been sized to, uh, be able to accommodate the, the, the maximum experience. The maximum expected build out at this site of, uh, 330 persons. Um, this area of whaling is actually served by Lincoln water. Uh, we have reached out to the Lincoln water department, um, and shown them this plan in what our proposed, um, water services. And, uh, they had no issues with the plan as, uh, our plans evolve into construction documents. We'll consider or continue coordination, um, with them on that. Um, that pretty much sums up what, uh, the bulk of the site design is. Uh, I think we'd like to ask Ken to talk a little bit about his, uh, traffic study. Good evening, Ken Cram, Fuston O'Neill. Uh, we prepared the, uh, traffic, uh, study for the project. We also were involved with the traffic study, uh, for the original build, uh, a number of years back. We followed math DOT guidelines, which is a standard, pretty much requirement across the board. Uh, we did our traffic, uh, counts, new counts when schools were in session. Uh, we looked at the entire area, uh, from, uh, South Great Road, Route 117, all the way over to Concord Road, Route 126. Uh, we did some traffic projections. We compared it to what the Institute of Transportation Engineers had in their trip generation manual. And we also did a rather extensive observations at the current campus, uh, in, um, neighboring Lincoln, which is, uh, operations are, are projected to be very similar in terms of pick up and drop off activity. So we had some really good solid data, uh, to generate our trips. Uh, overall, the project is not expected to have really a big impact. Um, the most of the traffic that's going to be generated by the school is going to occur when, during the morning peak hour, when people are dropping off their students or buses are coming in. Um, and then, uh, there's actually going to be the school peak, um, is actually, uh, earlier than the, uh, commuter peak hour. But we analyzed the worst, uh, assuming the two of them were the same. Um, we always looked at, uh, safety. Uh, we've got good sight lines at the site driveways. Um, and I just want to point out, uh, we have three driveways now, but the westernmost driveway is going to be for buses and emergency vehicles only. Um, as Michelle indicated, um, all the traffic, uh, for pick up and drop off, uh, for the students, will be through the central driveway. Um, one of the concerns that was identified several years ago, um, and, uh, the school put policies in place that, um, the staff and students would drive or directed not to use, uh, some of the local streets and rent to park on them. Uh, next slide, please. Um, basically, we're holding the, uh, the, uh, west site driveway will be wide enough to accommodate, uh, bus and emergency vehicles be 16 feet. Uh, the central driveway will also be 20 feet wide to accommodate, uh, turning into an out into because it's not, there's no one going out. But because we're going to have, uh, our design is to, uh, be able to accommodate, uh, a tandem uh, tandem, uh, tandem parking, well, tandem parking, tandem, uh, vehicle flow, uh, through this site. And the east driveway is going to remain as it is about 16 feet in width. Uh, no changes are proposed. Uh, all the, the, uh, proposed, uh, say, uh, uh, pavement markings and signage, um, that are regulatory in nature will be MUTCD compliant. Um, and, uh, all the, uh, internally, the, all the pedestrian ramps will be ADA compliant. Um, and, uh, one thing, uh, the existing school sign will be relocated to the new main entrance. Um, but, uh, we've made the recommendation that it be set back so it doesn't, uh, impede sightlines. And again, lastly, uh, during wintertime conditions, uh, snow windrows, which are those piles of snow that snow plows create, um, uh, they will be, uh, uh, not allowed to happen. If, if it does build up, they will have to be removed, um, so that the, those snow, uh, windrows do not, uh, impede the sightlines. Um, and I believe that's, uh, all I have. I'll be happy to answer questions later. Thanks, Ken. Um, Carrie DeLeo, school or consulting group, we're the owner's project manager for the, uh, for the project. Uh, I was also involved with the school, uh, during the previous phase, as with some of the others on, on the team, uh, just wanted to give you all, uh, or the broader community, just a static, um, update of where we stand right now. We have, um, you know, the, the neighbors across the street from the site are actually Lincoln, uh, residents, uh, the town line goes right down Wilhelm road. So we are, uh, presenting on Monday evening to, uh, the select, the select board, um, which was a request to them. Uh, Sean mentioned the board of the septic system that has been submitted to board of health with all the calculations that go with that. Um, additionally, as Bill mentioned, you know, currently this site is three parcels, 37 to 45. Uh, we have submitted, and I believe may even be on the agenda for this evening, uh, an ANR to combine this into just one parcel, just, um, for ease, uh, long term. And we also, uh, late last month, we opened our hearing with conservation. Uh, and, and under conservation's jurisdiction, we have applied for, uh, chapter 193, chapter 194 and an RDA, um, given the, uh, work adjacent to the wetland along the west side of the site that we mentioned. Um, and then, you know, as, as also mentioned, this project has gone out for peer review. Uh, we are, we have not received the peer review comments back yet, um, but we will, um, plan to come back to, like Bill mentioned, with all response to all the comments we've received, both through peer review, but also, uh, neighbor concerns and then any, uh, comments or questions that come up from town departments, uh, or you all this evening. So that is all we have. Um, I can actually stop sharing so that you can see folks' faces and reshare if needed. Can you send a copy of the slide presentation to Robert for the file? Yep. I have her. Thank you. Yep. And, uh, Robert, we'll just make sure you had, have the updated one. When we looked at it, um, just, you know, a couple of days ago, um, like slides like this one may not have been in there, but, you know, we will make sure you have the current, current. Thank you. Um, questions from the board who would like to lead off? Robin? Yes. Um, one comment I have in terms of the plans. Um, so these plans aren't showing the whole site. Like we're not seeing that area where the soccer fields are. They're always cut off. I think for some of the plans, it might be helpful for us to see the whole lot, the whole project. So we can see kind of what, what percentage of the space you're building on and what you're not and see it more holistically. Um, most of my concerns, cause I think the presentation was excellent, but most of my concerns revolve around parking and traffic. Um, having spent a significant amount of my life commuting through that area. Um, Waltham Road, trying to get out onto Concord Road to get into Wayland. There are nights it's backed up all the way to Lincoln Road and people do crazy things. I myself have driven south on Lincoln Road, which is death defying in and of itself. Um, but I, having heard from some of the abutters already with letters, I'm, I have some significant concerns about the traffic flow, um, and how people will try and get around the increased traffic from this. You know, you're, you're looking to make a five fold increase in your student population. So I have some concerns about how that's gonna impact traffic. I did not see the traffic study address at all the intersection of Lincoln Road and 117. Um, and so I think that would be something to be looking at. Um, and you know, people heading out to 117. Otherwise, if they're gonna go on Waltham Road or Old Sudbury Road, it turns into to go out to 117 the other way, going by what everybody calls Ponyhenge. Um, uh, that's sort of an, it's a dangerous section of the road and to increase the traffic there by any amount over what you've already increased, it seems questionable. Um, and with traffic, uh, comes parking. And I'm not clear what the plan is for having functions. If you have 250 students and you have an all school function, um, there doesn't appear to be room for all those cars to be on site. And unless you're going to park them on your soccer fields. Um, but none of the streets that are around the school have any room for cars to park on the street. There's no room for on street parking at all. Um, so I, you know, I'd want to know what that is without bothering some of the budding neighbors by having people driving down sort of what is just an access road. But, um, I was curious how many of your students currently, so you have almost 50 students, what percentage of them come in by bus? Um, and what percentage of them are coming in by family car? Um, cause I would imagine one of the things that's different about the Carroll school is that most of your students are not coming to school with a, with siblings. Um, most of your students, it's the only child from a family who's coming. So each car, other than a carpool, each car is bringing one student and then picking up one student at the end of the day. Um, and in terms of the drop off and pick up, having done a lot of drop off and pick ups up. Um, it, it, that looks like a very small area for allowing for the line to form. Uh, and what's the school's plan for if traffic does back up out onto Waltham Road? Will you have a staff person who's responsible for standing out on Waltham Road and monitoring that and getting those cows out of there, even if they have to drive around and come back later? Um, you know, what is the plan there? Um, those are my big issues. The rest of the stuff we'll have to get to later on with the Board of Health and CONCOM and everybody weighing in, so. Um, yeah, thank you. Uh, good presentation. Um, you may have covered this, but what is the volume of, uh, cars going down Waltham Road on a typical weekday? It was in the traffic study, Larry. Yeah. I can cram again for us, no Neil. Uh, when we need our accounts, uh, just in front of the school, there were total of, uh, just under 2000 vehicles per day. Total both directions. All right. Thank you. Larry, do you have other questions? No. Um, I wanted to get a feel for the percent increase, which is not that high. Yeah. Ira, do you have any questions? No, I'm, I'm listening to the exchanges at this point. And that's, that's. Okay. Jesse. I think I have the same concerns Robin had about traffic on either side on, on, uh, 117 and 126 and how that's not really addressed in the, in the traffic study. Okay. Um, I have a series of questions. Um, when I looked at online at your, um, uh, queuing, I was wondering how people who are parked in this parking lot, skin in and out and who are those people who park there. Do you, yeah. Yeah. Do you want us to answer as we go? We have answers for most of these questions, but it would be easier. It would get out of the way. Yeah. It's up to you. Oh, um, Carol school folks. I mean, I'm happy to. Sure. Let me, I can address that question quickly. So the people who are parked there are faculty and any staff that are located. And they do not leave when, uh, they're there for the entire duration of the day beyond pickup. So we don't, uh, have faculty or staff that leaves before the students. So there would be no movement in and out of those spots during pickup. Okay. If in the morning, not everybody comes in exactly on time. How do they get in and out? Well, again, most of the people are there before eight o'clock at the beginning of school to welcome all the students. So all of the faculty are already there and there would be, there's very limited number of people that come in and actually park during drop-off. Okay. And so the static image of the cars coming around that assumes that cars, because there's an excess amount of parking, then what we expect to have the number of faculty, there's going to be enough spaces that are open for overflow traffic. But all of those spaces would be filled, uh, at the beginning of school day and before the, uh, students leave. And if someone has to get in and out during that time, I mean, some things do happen. Sure. If, if, if somebody needs to leave right at the same time that there's pickup, then they would be sitting in the line waiting to get out. Well, they probably wouldn't be sitting in the line cause they wouldn't be able to get out to get into the line. Yeah. So if you had a student who had a problem at that point in time and needed an emergency vehicle, how would that work? Yeah. So I think what's important to note is, um, this is, uh, a, a manned or woman, um, process right. Similar to what happens currently in Lincoln, that there are faculty and staff in the parking lot, actively managing traffic. So I know that was one of the questions and that's what they do now. If you're familiar with the, the site on Baker bridge, you know, there's no way that's a, even might I say more dangerous road than, than Waltham road. So if they get backed up, they just send cars by and they have to do, you know, they have to just drive by and come back later. Uh, most of those times are because folks are not arriving at the correct, the correct time. Um, so that was one question, uh, same with, if there was an emergency on campus during that process. I don't know, Chris and Renee, if you can weigh in on how the, the actual, uh, dismissal is, is a fairly short amount of moments, right? Yes. It takes the dismissal can take, uh, 20 minutes, 25 minutes total to have everybody out. Uh, there are two entrances. So you have the emergency exit. I think if there was a situation where there was an emergency that we had to call an ambulance to be on campus for a student at the same time that we had the maximum number of cars, we would utilize the center entrance and go over by the bus, uh, uh, the bus pickup and drop off. So there's two ways to get onto campus in a scenario just like that. And again, because there is staff there, if there was someone who needed to get up right where they were actively loading, they'd just send those cars off and have them come back, you know, drive around, drive down, you know, go around, um, however that wants to look, but, um, you can, you should be able to clear that fairly, fairly quickly. Um, and again, that's a very, it's a pretty short amount of time that, that, that, that exists. And, and it is something that they manage, uh, effectively, um, with the existing population in Lincoln. Um, with regard to the pergolas, you don't have to answer this now, but we'd appreciate it in writing. Uh, what's the height of the pergolas? They're covered and, uh, will trucks be able to get underneath them and buses? Um, I understand from comments that we've received. That you have a garage and a maintenance area currently, uh, what's your plan for the future? So there's, um, again, Chris, you feel free to kick me out if I'm overstepping, but yeah, the, the current garage, the, a few years back, the school acquired the, the, uh, property next door to them, which was 37 Waltham road. That was a single family home. They removed that home and are using that garage, but there is another garage on, on site, um, that is down, uh, closer to the fields, um, on that long access and the access road that goes down the east side. And so the intent is to, to have facilities use that garage. Is that garage on apple tree lane? I believe it's part of a parcel that Carroll school owns on apple tree. Is that correct? Chris? Yes, it is back, uh, next to 10 apple tree lane. Uh, we also have the intention since we have two other campuses, uh, any of the, oftentimes we have our vans or other equipment, uh, in Wayland and it's there now because we have the space, but moving forward, we could easily, uh, and we plan on shifting some of that equipment to other campuses as well. So we would no longer be concentrated there. Okay. On the apple tree lane area, that's pretty close to the houses that are there, I believe. Um, and will the access be through that long corridor and not, no access from apple tree lane? Well, we, we'd have to do some really thought around what equipment we have stored in Wayland versus in Lincoln or Waltham. Um, but we would use a mix if it's obviously, if it's a van or a, uh, another vehicle, we'd use the road. But if it's a lawn equipment, then we would, uh, remain on our property. It depends upon what it's used for. So when you're using a, excuse me, Bill, uh, Sterling, could you just, um, black yourself out until we're ready for you? Um, so if you're, if you were moving equipment on site, will you be moving it on internal roads or will you be using exterior roads? I think if we're moving. Yeah. Yeah. The garage is on the apple tree parcel, but the openings of the garage face the fields. That makes sense. Okay. And your access to it would be. From the site. Yeah, exactly. You don't have to go out onto Waltham road. It's okay. Yeah. If you, you know, mowers and things like that can come in and out right from the fields, et cetera. Okay. Yes. They would not be on the roads. I'm just looking through my notes. Um, I believe someone said that you would be reusing the existing sign, but moving it back a little bit from the road. Is that correct? Correct. Yeah. And relocating it to the new, where the new entrance comes in. Okay. Um, in the traffic study, um, it talks about the, I think it's the Western entrance being only emergency, but that's not what was said tonight. That was what Mr. Cram repeated again. But what, uh, Ms. Crowley said was that buses would be coming in there as well. So can you clarify that in your written response exactly what goes where? Yeah. And we can, we can add some clarity around this. I think the intention is that Carroll school transporting buses that are bringing students to and from school. They would come in the main entrance, go through the bus pipe bypass and park at the fish center. I think the, um, the emergency access for buses would just be in a situation where, um, similar to some of the other comments. If they have a visiting team coming for a sports engagement right at the same time, um, as pickup and drop up, it allows for them to give them direction to come right toward, uh, the area where the gymnasium is and offload those students. Okay. Again, it's just. Yeah. We can bring confusion. Yeah. Um, and for large events, what are you planning on doing for parking? So I'm happy to take that one. Hi, everybody. Renee Greenfield, head of school. Um, if folks don't know, I think it's important to know that we have three different campuses on Waltham, in Waltham, in Lincoln, and in Whalen. And we often have all school events where we have to organize and have people park on one site and transport them. And so, um, that would likely have to be a consideration, um, on this campus. Um, and so we have the access to Wayland and Lincoln where we can park folks and shuttle them over for events and then return them to their cars. Um, so we have, um, lots of experience doing that. Um, so that would be an option that we would have to consider, um, for large school events. Okay. Um, in reading through the traffic study, I could be wrong, uh, but I thought that they were doing morning peak and evening peak. Um, and can you tell us for the morning peak, what the hours are that you're looking at? And for the evening peak, what the hours are that you're looking for? And do you want to take it? If you can answer that now, it would be helpful because I have a follow up question. He's getting ready. I can see. 745 to 845 and 430 to 530. 430 to 530. And, uh, what's the school release time? 3 o'clock. Correct. Approximately. Yeah. Did you do any studies looking at the 3 o'clock to 330, 3 o'clock to 4 timeframe? We did do counts at that time, but the counts were higher at the 430 to 530 time. Okay. Well, that's good to know because traffic here in Wayland has increased phenomenally, quite frankly, and starting at 1030 in the morning, uh, with a slight hiatus. A little afternoon, uh, then at 2 30, it's nuts. And then it continues on. So we've noticed real increase in the normal, uh, hours of, of traffic, uh, don't really work anymore. Annette, anecdotally, when we were permitting this site for the first phase, it was right around the advent of, uh, Waze, and it was having a major impact on, uh, Waltham Road at the time. Right. And it still does. It sure does. Yeah. Um. So someone had asked a percentage of students. Um, we have not, uh, Chris, uh, let me know if you've since found out we weren't able to get a really clear identification of the carpool quantity. But, uh, on average, it's about 35% of the kids are getting bust and the older kids, um, that Carol serves, you know, middle schoolers tend to be, uh, you know, largely, you know, that population kit, you know, tends to the younger kids are a lower percentage of bust kids. But overall 35%. Um, this doesn't need to be answered now, but I'd appreciate it in writing, uh, in the traffic report on page 40, uh, under 5.1 recommendations. The last two paragraphs are identical, except that one refers to the 209 manual and uniform control devices. And the other refers to the 2023 one. So if you could clarify which one you're using and, and, or why you've got both of them in there, we'd appreciate that. I had some questions. Well, right now it's the second paragraph. Pardon me? It's the second paragraph. Because the current MUTCD is 2023. Okay. And it looks like what we did was we inadvertently copied the same paragraph twice. Okay. Thank you. Um, sorry. And the plans you have, um, Um, two different items. And I was just wondering where they're located. This is on L 601 paving details. Um, there's, uh, a section six and a section seven. Uh, six deals with, uh, concrete unit pavers. And section seven deals with grass pavers. Pave two spaces. Can you tell us where they're going to be installed? Nish, do you want to take that one? Sure. The, um, the unit pavers, um, are going to be used in, uh, the areas, um, the front entry and the terraces in the back, um, instead of concrete paving, which is the, the rest of the sidewalks. And then the, the grass paver unit is, um, in between, uh, the, the buildings, um, where we need to have, um, wait a second. Sorry. I need to look at the plans. The grass pave is. I'm sorry. Hold on. I have the plans open here. Just needing to see the grass pave is the, the one with the, the fire lane. Yes. I think that's right. The, the, the, yeah. So we have behind on the back of the fish center, we're doing a reinforced, um, lawn, but then we come up near the septic area is then, uh, the, the grass pavers so that you can actually see it's a stabilizer for the fire truck to be able to turn around. Yeah. Do you want me, uh, Carrie, if it's easier to show you on the planet. That would be fine if you want to do that. Yeah. Oh, I just, oh, you guys can't see my screen, but yeah. Um, there you go. Back here. Okay. So, uh, so the pavers, well, actually the pavers are, are the area I can, I can annotate on here. Um, there on either side of this path, if you can see the blue, which is just extending. So that's, that's sort of an existing, that's an existing path right now, an asphalt path, but we would then, uh, flank it so it can be technically wider for the fire truck without widening it. Uh, so it's a, it's a pervious material outside of that. So we don't have to make it a 20 foot wide swath for the walk is still staying. This is just on either end. Yeah. So that said to stabilize the fire. Thank you. Um, in your last approval, uh, you, uh, entered into some conditions voluntarily, um, which I'm assuming carry over. Uh, but I think that, uh, are you willing to do that again? Because I think some of them may need to be added to. Uh, yeah. I mean, of course, I don't have it right in front of me. So I'm not specifically understanding which ones. Um, they're what they're called to site approval. Um, they have, uh, drop off and pick up parking protocols. They had, um, no deliveries before a certain time, no trash removal before a certain time. That would continue anyway. Um, but for, uh, the parking protocol that might need to be updated. So if you would look through that, that there were two documents that were attached. The other one is, well, the actual drop off and pick up the parking protocol. And then give us a chance to look at those again. Okay. That would be great. Accommodate. So thank you. Um, and I think that's probably it. Um, the school zone issue, is that something that you want to implement? Yeah, I can address that. Uh, yes, we would be interested in discussing, uh, how we could implement a school zone. Um, and what exactly that would entail. We don't have a specific, um, recommendation on what it would, but we would be very interested in having that part of the, uh, part of the submission. Okay. Robert, could you check with the DPW to find it would be under the control either of the DPW or the select board, but the DPW has the most experience. All right. I think we'd also need to get mass highway to agree. I'm fairly sure that. On the private way, on a, on a, a town where you have to get mass highway as well. I'm pretty sure if mass highway has jurisdiction, even, um, on local roads. Interesting. But we can definitely explore it and we're, as Chris, as Chris said, we're, we're open to seeing if we can do it or not. And, and if it's not possible, I think, you know, the town of Wayland has implemented a number of other types of, you know, traffic calming. I think, you know, Carol shares the same, the same concerns as the neighbors that, you know, folks do drive quickly. Um, so all in favor of, of slowing that down collectively. Um, that's the roadway stuff, um, for speed humps and those things are not within our control at all. Um, and the police and DPW and fire have not been excited about adding such a thing, um, because of emergency vehicles, among other things. Um, but you can certainly pursue that if that's something you wanted to do. Um, is there anything else that anybody wants to discuss? Robert, do you have questions? Uh, let me see. I do want to make a note that the, the two police chiefs from Lincoln and Wayland are set to meet. And I believe that they also are looking to meet with the Carol school to offline. So I would reach out to, I would reach out to Ed Berman, the police chief in Wayland to get that discussion started. So have you been working? I know that, um, you've spoken with the town planner in Lincoln. Um, and have you been working with the police chiefs as well? Yeah. So the two police chiefs are going to meet together. Uh, and I think they did also like the Carol school representative to me with them. Okay. Discuss that off. Yeah, Robert, we've been trying to work with both chiefs to, to find a mutual time to meet. We hope to be able to do that in the next week and a half. Okay. On site. In a similar vein, I have a question. So the Wayland fire chief will weigh in because it's a Wayland project, but given the location of the school, it's more likely that Lincoln is going to be responding. So it would seem, is there any way that we can ask that Lincoln weigh in on the access and turning radiuses and all those things as well? Sure. Yeah. I mean, again, we're meeting just to remind everyone we're meeting with the select board in Lincoln on Monday. So we can mention it that it's something we'd like them to take a look at, to report back to you folks. That's great. Great. So Robert, um, for peer reviewers, where are we? We, so we hired one. They, we get, I gave them the EOK on December 30th. I will follow them tomorrow and see where they're at. That's an engineering firm. Correct. And who is that? ECT. EDC. I'm sorry. And they have the materials and they're reviewing them. Yeah. I don't know when they're going to be ready. I have not heard back from them yet. Well, you need to contact them. Yeah, I will. Um, and, uh, for traffic, is there anybody? ECT. They're doing both. Oh, they're doing both. Great. Yeah. Okay. Um, because conservation needs the engineered report as well. For the storm water so that they can move ahead. Um, I'd like to, um, we're going to need an extension of, uh, an agreement for an extension of time on this project in order to make sure that it gets peer reviewed and, uh, the public gets an opportunity to see what's going on. Um, do you think, Robert, that by our next meeting, uh, which is October the 29th, I think, uh, that we will have peer review information? I would hope so. They, they got, they got the information. Before the, uh, they got the, all the information before the other project did. So I'm hoping that we can get something by October 29th. Okay. Okay. But then you'd have to get the stuff back to the applicant and the applicant would have to look at it. So I'm wondering what the timeframes are. I would, I would try, I would try to see if we, if we could schedule it on the 29th and then go from there. And then the next few days figure out where we're at, then to, then to push it off too far and then find out, oh, we could have done the 29th. We, we should, we should have to schedule that. So I would tend to at least continue. So when, when would the project team need to have the report in order? I know that it don't depend how complicated it is, but in order to turn it around so that we could be ready for a meeting on the 29th of October. Is there a submission requirement in terms of us? You know, I know we sent Robert our, our slideshow the other day, but is there any submission requirement that we need to get you anything in advance or could we have up until the 29th if and say, you know. We'd prefer to have it a little in advance so that the board can read through it. Yeah. Well, just because it makes it easier and it moves faster. We have two major projects happening at the same time, and we're trying to stagger them so that we don't have them all on one evening if we can do that. If, if. If I may. Yes. Chair and carry. Um. Chumlono Consulting Group. I think Robert's suggestion probably makes the most sense if we can. Peer reviews are in, in the next week or so before the 29th. Um, that would at least give us an opportunity to see what the comments are, what needs to be done and be able to have a more informed. You know, brief discussion with the board about when to extend it out to, to get actual revised plans in your hand. What do you think about that, Mr. Perea? Well, the idea is to continue to the 29th and, and discuss then when we, when our team might be able to have comments back. Yeah, that, that, that was my thought bill. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it would, it wouldn't clog up your agenda for the 29th because it would just be, we've got the reports. We've looked at them. You know, again, the, the neighbor, the neighbors have comments into us and we want to be respectful of those as well. So the 29th is if we want to just sort of pencil in some time for that short discussion to, you know, to pinpoint a hearing date where we can have full revised, you know, drawings and reports back to you. Right. That would work. So, Robert. Right. Today's the 15th. I'm just looking at my calendar. Do you think that we could get something to the applicant by like the 20th? I will check in with the peer review. Well, they've had since September 30th. September 30th. So they've had it for. They've had it since September 30th. Yeah. So they have had it for two weeks. So we're hoping that they. I think when we give it to peer reviewers, we should tell them when we want the turnaround and they should say if they can do it or not. And then we work out the date so that when we come to a hearing, we know what we've got coming down. I told them that, you know, we're not expecting for the 15th, but we're expecting the 29th. I said, I just got to follow them again and see where they're at. Again, again, the 29th. At the time I looked at that to be done by, that was a month. That doesn't answer the question. Because the concern that I have is we need stuff from them to get to the applicant so the applicant can turn it around and we don't have that much time to do these things. So when you call the consultants and just get a schedule. Sure. Okay, well, we can extend it if it's okay to the 29th. But I guess, Robert, we have the the timeframe that we're supposed to have a decision by is what date and the first November the first. Correct. And we need and there's no way we're going to get done with this project and issue a decision by November the first. Would you be willing to give us an extension of time, say 45 days from from November the first to render a decision if we can do it? I would have to, you know, ask my client and the team about that. But, of course, we would offer an extension because we know we're not going to get through this by November 1st. Right. I think I heard you mention Mr. Sterling might be on. Bill Sterling? Yeah. Bill Sterling. Is he going to discuss it? Because the design review advisory board met last evening. And I think that we have to appear before them again as well. That's right. Maybe he's coming to talk about that. I don't know. I just heard him. Technically, they have to issue their decision within 30 days to us and all that. So, yeah, what we discussed last night was that you need to work with Robert and Anina to get yourself a new date to meet with us because you weren't able to meet with us yesterday. Oh, OK. We discussed the plan without your input because you guys asked to not meet last night. So, OK, well, that clarifies it. Yeah. OK. I think you can talk to Mr. Sterling offline. Sure. But in any case, I think the idea of continuing to the 29th and tomorrow or the next day, I can submit an extension document. That would be great because we're running right up against the time frame and I don't want to do that. That's perfectly sensible to do that. I can coordinate that with my team and. Terrific. Yeah. And Robert, we for the site walk for this project. Yes, we can try it. We can try to say that now. See, I didn't get any types of the app and I have all the I have all the times. And the only day the consultant was not available was the 21st. Why don't you give us the dates that are that everyone is available. I have to look at the schedule, which ones are out because of course, because of that. Open meeting. I can't understand what you're saying. I think let me look at the ones that we can't use now because open meeting law. Uh, the 20th. I have the 20th. 2 to 5, 2 to 5. And that's out 3 o'clock, 3 and a half, 3.30 for Robin. I thought you had figured out when a time whenever you have the app in one. I don't have the app. And so I can't plug it in. No, for us. When we were available and then we can tell the applicant. Yeah. 3.30. So we, uh, Annette, if that can't go to that one. And then the other one be 10, 30 to one. That's fine. So you could do 12 o'clock noon on the 23rd, which is a Thursday, next Thursday. But I just need the information from the app and I don't have that. That's one. The 12, 12 o'clock. Robert, I can't follow it. Just write down the few dates and then tell us what they are. And then. The 23rd at 12 o'clock works for everybody, including the peer review consultant. And then also 8th and 9th on the 24th. So 8th and 9th on the 24th, which is a Friday. And when you said Thursday, does that work for Jesse too? It does. At 12 o'clock. Jesse is good for 10, 30 to one. Okay. So, um. At 12 o'clock on Thursday. Does it either at 12 o'clock or 8 o'clock on the day after? Does that work for the applicant? And we have some input from our team on that. So that's either Thursday, the 23rd at noon or Friday, the 24th at 8 a.m. I mean, we don't need the, we don't need the whole team to be there. We just, we just, I think we just need someone represented from, from, from the, uh, just be on, on site from the Carol school. But also being sensitive. This is also a school that's open too. Is there going to be a need to go inside or are you mostly just looking to get the light? No, we don't need to go inside. We don't need to go inside. We don't need to be outside. Okay. But at 8, um, isn't that when your traffic's coming in? Sure. And the other thing I would say is that noontime kids are eating lunch and they're outside. So there's like lots of kids outside between 12 and 1. So. So that's not great for you. Well, we can make anything work. I just want to just lift that up that that's. Okay. On the Friday, Robert, it was eight to what? Nine. Eight to nine. That was it? That was, that was it for Jesse and Robin. Yeah. I mean, you can probably meet, potentially meet earlier, but I don't have that time from the, from everybody else right now. Right now. And on Thursday, the, uh, the 12 o'clock, is there a range on that one? Uh, it also depends on who, if people can't attend. Yeah. I mean, Jesse, 10 to 30 to one. Larry, 12, 12 to four. Robin, 11 to two. Robert, this isn't helpful. When you, you need to just. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it depends if someone drops off. If someone drops off, it makes it easier. Well, we don't want anybody to drop. I know I'm just, I'm just plain depth of that. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. It would be helpful if you kind of came to a conclusion and then gave us two or three times, uh, top times, as opposed to kind of figuring out on fly. I think is what she's saying. So what about the 20? What about the 23rd at one o'clock? Does that work or not? That was for Larry. That was for Annette. That was for Robin. And that would just not cut off. That would cut off Jesse. That's it. Tell you what. I'll make it work. 23rd of October. 23rd of October at one. Is that, and you have to check with your project team? No, we can decide right now. I think, can we make Thursday at one work folks? Yeah. If you want me, that's okay with me. I can do it. Okay. We can figure out who really needs to be there. Other people, how do other people feel about that? Yes. Carol is good with it. Okay. Thank you. We'll set that up. And now we'll set up the open meeting. That's the agenda as I walk. Okay. Let's do that. The 23rd at one PM on campus. Terrific. Thank you very much. So, we'll continue this. I'd like a motion to continue this hearing until October the 29th. At 7 o'clock? At 7 o'clock? No. At 7.15. So moved. Seconded. All in favor. Robin? Yes. Larry Kiernan? Yes. I reminded you. Yes. Annette Lewis. Jesse. Yes. Jesse Newberry. Yes. Okay. Passes. Okay. So thank you everyone. And thanks for the nice presentation. We appreciate it. Thank you all. Have a good day. Thank you. Good night. Thank you. Thank you. The next thing we need to do is the A&R plan. 29. Okay. Robert, do you want to put it up on the screen and have either you or the attorney just tell us what's going on? Yeah, I believe this is three, three lots here. The data lines are where they're showing where the existing lots are, lot one. And then these be, I think, I don't know what's going on. The existing lots were, but what they were called, but the data lines are this one coming here. And then this is the other lot line that's here. I'm going to ask the attorney to give us the presentation because in the write up, it says in the notes, I believe it says that there are in the application that they're combining lot one and lot two. And it looks like they're more than that there. So we need to understand what we're looking at. I'm here. This is bill for you for the record for Carroll school. So the engineer who prepared this is not at the meeting tonight. Okay. So if you look at number two, it says the planning, the purpose is to combine lots one and two is shown on some other plan that we haven't looked at. But it looks as though you're combining three lots. There are only. If I can jump in for a second, I think I can explain. Good. Thank you. So the center plot and the one that's labeled lot one was the existing- I couldn't see which one was labeled lot one. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I do see lot one. Sorry. Take it back. The largest plot and the middle plot- Yes, is one. Right. Got it. It is two plots. However, that is one property. So 30. So 39 and 45. 39 is the middle. 45 is the left. I see. Thank you. And then the, the western most plot was purchased after. And that is, we are erasing the plot line in the middle. And then erasing the other plot line for 37. Right. Yeah. Got it. Thank you. I appreciate that. Okay. Robert, did you- I had one question. That, that little tail that's down, the one that's off of apple tree lane, is that, that's not being merged at this time? That's all part of the lot. That's all part of the lot. That's not a lot line. It's an easement line. Oh, okay. All right. It's hard to see. Yeah. So, Robert, you checked- Yeah, so the triangle that's bisected by the easement is part of lot one. Okay. Robert, you reported to us that you checked it and everything looked okay. There was a typo somewhere, now I'm familiar, I saw a typo on the notes. On the notes. On the notes. On the notes. I'm trying to- I'm blowing up. I'm trying to read it. What's the typo? I have to remember what it was. It was something- Oh, come on. There was a typo that I saw. Is it an important typo? I don't- We kind of skim through it right now, can't you? To the existence of unrecorded easements of abiding properties are from current disaster circuit. We'll take it into quadrants and- Are you trying to figure out what the problem is, Robert? Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what the typo was. Maybe it's- And is not certification to the title? Should it be certified or something instead of certification? No, it wasn't- I don't- Maybe it's over here? I don't know. It won't be that point if I didn't remember what it was. Yeah. You should have marked it. I should have, but I reviewed this a few weeks ago. If it's not something that's significant, can we vote to- Yeah, I mean, if I can't remember what it was, it probably wasn't at that point. But it's probably something I should just note it for the record. So, yeah, I would recommend voting on it today. Okay. Does anyone have any questions on the plan? Nope. Nope. Nope. Can I have a motion to approve the A&R plan that was submitted? Does it have a date on it, Robert? It does. August 12th, 2025 is what they dated it. To approve the A&R plan dated August 12th, 2025? Yep. So moved. Seconded. All in favor, Robin Borgestedt? Yes. Annette Lewis, yes. Larry Kiernan? Yes. Ira Montague? Yep. Jesse Newberry? Yes. At this point, what do you have? Do you have a Mylar or just a paper copy? I have. I believe I have Mylar. Okay. So we need to come in and sign it? Correct. Okay. And you just tell us when you'll be there so that we can come in and sign it, or how you want us to do it. Just leave it on your table, unless you're not going anywhere tomorrow. I'll be there tomorrow. 8 o'clock. Okay. Well, hopefully. I'll let you know. If I'm not there, if I'm not there, then Nita is there. But we'll just, I would just, people would just come in and sign. Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you, everyone. We appreciate your patience. Thank you all. Good night. Thank you. Thank you all. Can we review and approve draft minutes? Yeah, I have two sets of minutes. I'm not sure if we saw both of them, but. No, just one of them. Or I think it's just one of them. We've only seen one of them. And that's the 17th, 9-17. All right. We can just skip over 10. We'll do 10th next week. It's fine. Next time. I did have both, but that's fine. Pardon me? Yeah. I said both, but that's, we can just skip over it. And the agenda said both, but I didn't see it in a packet. Yeah. Only one. I did. I thought I'd send it back for me or not. So let me just pull up the 10th, the 17th on the screen. The 17th is the one that we're approving. Correct. And we have, we have, we have, we have enough, we have time for another meeting to. I'm sorry. I can't understand what you're saying. We have time at the next meeting to, to, to review the 10th. The 10th. Yes. Yes. So we're fine from open, open meeting alarm. Right. Sorry. It's, it's so late. All right. So this is the 17th and I had Annette and Jessie looking over. Have people had an opportunity to review it? Yes. Yes. Uh, are they are getting quite long? Huh? I know. I asked Robert if we could figure out how to make them shorter. I'm making sure by, by not having like all these bullets and kind of subbing into paragraphs. Are you just picking this up from honor? No, we have someone who writes it. We have a minute taker, right? Yeah. Michelle. Um, there's one section that you had corrected. And, um, I mentioned to you after I saw it, that it needed further correction. Um, and it dealt with. Besides the current peer reviews. Yeah. The scope of work thing. It should be scope of work, not scopes of works or whatever it is. Review. Okay. For peer review. Scopes of work. Good catch. And you will consult peer review firms. I think there were, it was two places review on this line above that scopes of work. Okay. Does anyone else have any other comments? Yeah. Does she take this off of the tape? Is that how she gets it so accurate? Yeah. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. It's like a stenographer. It's like a stenographer. It's a little too much. Yeah. I have no other comments. Hopefully this ends up in the next minutes. This conversation right here. Okay. Let's have a motion to approve the minutes. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. 917. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. 917. 917. Seconded. I'll make a second. Or you second it. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Who's all in favor. Robin Borgestedt. Yes. Iron Man. Yes. Larry Kiernan. Yes. Jesse Newberry. Yes. Great. Thank you. Nick, we didn't call upon you, but you were free to in the site plan reviews to make comments as well. You can't vote on it, but you can certainly make comments and we'd like to hear them for the future. Okay. Then the Andrew Avenue Community Center. Yeah, I think so. I think Bill Sterling is here, but I'm not sure how he got a link. Cause I didn't send him a link. So, what makes me, did someone else send him a link? Cause I did not send him one. Okay. Yeah. Normally Bill, we don't, we like the people who are in that hearing to be on the screen. And if they're not in that particular hearing to wait until their time to show their face. Cause it gets confusing. And Mike Fay is also here. I'm just saying, I'm sending him up to the facilities director. Hello everybody. Okay. Okay. So part of the requirements of the COA amended decision earlier this year was to bring back a landscape plan on how to screen the, the electrical equipment after we, after the, after I believe Larry and Annette did a sidewalk of this property. Um, I believe that this is the, uh, the plan that, that the public providing the town for review and consideration. And when you just pull, I'm trying to find my notes on this. Um, so I would let, uh, Michael Fay, the facility director of town and Bill Sterling, um, discuss any more about this. If, you know, if there are questions. Well, my question is that I don't really fully understand what's being proposed. So I need somebody to talk us through it. Basically, Annette, what we're doing is we're going to surround the existing, um, electrical structure with some fencing, uh, that matches the existing fencing around the, uh, entire area. It's a grayish, uh, aluminum fencing that they've used throughout the area. And that'll match. Like I said, it will match what's at the COA. Plus I believe bill it's, um, somewhere else on site. Can somebody show us the actual plan? It's the plan that I didn't understand. I understood that you were going to use that kind of screen. Yeah. I can pop on a screen. Can you see it? So, so where it goes? So where exactly? Okay. So it's going behind the bollards. Yes. That's fine. It's going around the equipment. Um, that's the one from the Northeast from the parking lot. Does it go completely around to the rear as well? And then here's from the South. So. And then there's an opening. Again, it was hard to understand. There's an opening on the parking lot side and another opening on the building side. For access to service without having to add doors. Okay. And how on the parking lot side, how large is the entrance? Because I can't see an entrance there. You can see a floor plan, too, if you scroll to, uh, to the plans. Oh, good. I'll pull it up on the screen. There's a blow up of that floor plan. In the. Is this what you're looking for? Right here? In the report. There is a blow up of the floor plan. Um. Oh. Yep. I see it now. Right. There it is. So. I couldn't understand it. There are two drawings of it. The one on the left is showing the fence location with little X's and lines. That's what those represent. The X's and lines have a gap on the lower left and another gap on the upper right. You can see where it says open. That means that's your opening from the parking lot side. Robert. Can you point to the two openings? I think I see the open. There's one. That's the one from the parking lot there. Got it. And I believe it's here, too. Yep. Okay. So it goes all around that. Yep. Does anybody have comments? My only comment is, can we put a door, particularly on the parking lot side? I would hate to see somebody sort of wander in there. Well, that's primarily for the fire department. They need to have sight line of sight for the emergency button. That's the reason why we have that in the front. Okay. But do you think that it would be inviting people to walk in? Walk in and don't get out? Well, I assume there'll be a sign on it says, do not enter or something. Maybe we could, we could definitely look into signage. Yeah. Something that's there that gives them some sort of warning. Put high voltage side on it. Yeah. Right. Or we could, we could actually maybe put some sort of maybe a yellow piece of chain or maybe paint the color chain across. As long as the fire department can see the button, you know, we can put something across there. That would be fine. But I wouldn't use a yellow chain. Yeah. No, I'm stood. No. That's safety. That's safety piece coming out of me in that. I'm sorry. I mean, even the yellow bollards, that's not, I mean, the rest of the town center doesn't have yellow bollards. They're all black, but at least having the fencing around it will make it look a little better. Hmm. Uh, we asked for black and we were not allowed to use black. Who wouldn't? The fire department? That was a building department determination. That's weird. I thought so too. Maybe you should try the new building commissioner. With a spray can. Does anyone have any? So the drawing on the right is basically just to show that there's landscaping, the little, you see a little darker circles and so forth. There'd be a cluster of plants on the lower end and another cluster of plants on the upper end to help soften the impact of the fencing. Good idea. Certainly better than just the electric unit. So that's an improvement. No. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. So do we want to approve that? I'm fine. Yeah. Yeah. Fine with it. Jesse. Yeah. Okay. Me too. Um, so, um, we need to do something, Robert, to amend the plan. Somehow. And this isn't, um, a plan plan to amend, if you know what I mean. I understand. So how are we going to do that? Well, it was part of the conditions that it said that they need to propose. It didn't say that they have to come back to amend this plan with the original plan. I'm trying to figure out how you follow that. Well, I mean, of course it's an amendment to the original plan, because then there wouldn't be a record of this having been done. What are these ways to handle that? We need to, we need to first of all, write a decision. And the decision needs to refer to documents. Okay. Okay. And it wouldn't be a complicated decision. It would be similar to others that we've done when we've just done a short amendment. Okay. We can do that for the 29th. Okay. Um, so, um, I don't think I asked for a vote yet. Um, just thinking about how to, uh, phrase this. Um, I guess a motion to approve, um, an updated landscape plan for PB number 2303 8 Andrew Avenue Council and Aging Community Center, uh, to enclose the, um, utility panel next to the, uh, parking lot, um, with, uh, a black fence, uh, as shown in the pictures that we've seen this evening. So moved. Seconded. All in favor, Larry Kiernan. Yes. Jesse Newberry. Yes. Robin Borgestedt. Yes. Uh, Ira Montague. Yes. Annette Lewis. Yes. Um, Robert, is there one other piece that you were saying still has to be accomplished? Uh, I, I do have, I do have the, it says that the, um, once approved, the screening should be installed by the applicant. Inspected by the plan board agent prior to the addition of the final COA, CO. And then they also need to have a final ASBO plan, which would need to be reviewed and have a, you know, a sidewalk to make sure everything is correct. Before the issuance of the final CO. Correct. Is that, can that happen? In the timeframe we've got? Uh, probably not. Cause we're running out of time. I think the deadline is coming up very soon, like next month. I think about about a month away. Well, you need to tell us what the timeframe is we're dealing with. And if we need to do something that gives them another extension of time. And then when we write the decision, it also gives them an extension of time, or if we can get it all done. Uh, no, so they got, so it was May 13th, six months after that. So we're looking at, uh, November, November 13th. So yeah, they would need to probably need to, uh, extend that deadline. Cause this will not be done. This everything will not be done in, in three or four weeks. Well, no, the work won't be done, but we can get the drawings. Yeah. But you need everything done. It says it needs, it needs, once approved, the screen must be installed by the applicant, inspected by the planner agent, which is may prior to the issues of the final COA. So you, you can get all the, you can get all the approval done, but you, but you need to put it in the ground and I need to say, yep, thumbs up. Thumbs up. That's good. So that won't be done. So the board should probably amend that deadline and give, figure out what the, figure out what the, what the, uh, When do you think, uh, Mike, that you'll be done? Uh, I, uh, mid December would be good. I've got to get to a few contractors, get some pricing now that it's approved. Okay. Two, two months, two months, maybe just to, just to give enough room. We're going to like to come back again for an amendment. And so two months would be December, January, mid January. Pardon me. I thought you said two months would be, that would be like December the 15th. Uh, it's, it's going to, it's the, the, the sixth month is running out on November 13th. So one month would be December 13th, two months would be January 13th of the next year. Oh, I, Mike was saying two months from now, right? Yeah. Yeah. I thought he was saying two months from now. Yeah. Just putting a fence around that box, a wire fence. No, it's aluminum. It's aluminum, uh, square tubing. It looks like the other ones around the, uh, the trash receptacles at the town center. Okay. I was just adding an extra month to make sure there's enough. We don't have to keep going back. I would hate to have to have to keep coming back and it's just. I leave it to you. Um, you tell us what you need and we'll deal with it. Yeah. Uh, I, I think. Yeah. Rob, it's good. January, whatever day in January is fine. So maybe two, be two, be two months beyond the day of that. Yep. And I'm fine with that. I just want to make sure that we. And what's that date? Uh, January, uh, January 13th. January 13th. Let me see what the exact date is. But it's a date from, from that day. Uh, January 12th, 2026. Okay. So you can put that in one short amendment. Yep. I will. Okay. Do we need to vote that or can we just do it by consensus? Uh, let's, let's vote it. So it'd be easier for them. Okay. Um, why don't you make the motion and then we'll. Cause I, at this point I'm confused. The motion would be to extend. Uh, um, the motion. The motion to meet is to extend the deadline of decision condition 5.2.3, which requires within six months to require that be within six, eight months of the temporary CEO. So you're just changing six months to eight months. Okay. That, that would be the motion. Okay. Who's going to make that? I can do that. So, uh, I move that we extend the deadline. From November 13th to January 13th of 2026 for the final approval. Of the applicable plan. Of the applicable plan. As bill. As bill. Oh, sorry. As bill. Okay. Is there a second? Second. All in favor, Robin? Yes. Larry Kiernan? Yes. Yes. Jesse Newberry. Yes. I reminded you. Yes. Annette Lewis. Yes. Is there anything else that we need to do on this? Nope. I think once, once they install it, and once we have the decision, we mend the decision at the next meeting, um, I think they just have to inspect it. And then we have to, our team here has to, has to inspect the final as bill plan. Okay. And that would include, that would include, uh, the, uh, Michael, uh, Mike from facilities, uh, town DPW, town server may, and where was also needs to be. So, okay. So on the as bill plan, it will show the fence. And so we don't need to do an interim amendment. And you'll refer to that in the, uh, decision that we're going to issue. Great. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Is there anything else that you guys need? Nope. That's it. Okay. Okay. Thank you. All right, Mike. Yeah. Is that the flagpole? No, it's just the, the, we just want to make sure that we, it's located on the plan properly. That's all. Oh, yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you, Michael. Thanks, Phil. Thanks guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good night. Okay. Robert, moving on to Cherena road. So I was made aware. Yep. So I was made aware that the 13th Street and Road approved subdivision that was approved defendant subdivision that was, sorry, mouth is a lot of dry. That was approved by the plan board earlier this year. The, um, water main and hydrogen plan was modified and I'm going to pull on the screen just in case people did not have a chance to, um, look at it as much, but the water main was coming off of Cherena road before, and now they are proposing it to come off the easement off of O connected path. So previously it was coming off here and connecting. Now it's good. It's going to connect and come in as be served off of O connected path. Um, and this appears to be a amendment. I mean, it appears to be needed for, to approve this plan, which we have. They have predefined. We, the plan board has approved a final plan set for this. And this would be a modification and a change to this. And the, I, I loaded the app again, that, that most likely the planning board is going to ask for amendment and the plan that they should submit a amendment for public hearing. So under the subdivision control law, anytime you make any changes after an approved subdivision plan, you have to, it says that you have to do it in the same way that you did the original application, uh, which requires, because it's a subdivision. It requires public notice in the newspaper in two consecutive weeks. Yep. Um, so that's, I think what we have to do, because that's what the law says. So, um, when they do that, make a formal application, then Robert put the notice in the newspaper for a hearing date. Um, and one of our regular nights, I hope, uh, we'll have to talk through what that date is, Robert, you and I, and, um, then we'll have a hearing. Um, and, uh, if we're okay with this, and I think we should look at it now to see if anybody has any issues with it. My only issue is I don't understand why it's changing. Yeah. They get a reason. Uh, I believe the, uh, the owner is, he is on the call. So I'm not sure if you want to allow her to speak on that. Yep. Let her speak. Yeah. Let me just. Her hands are up. Yeah. I, I've, I have the screen open, so I'm trying to get the other screen open. I carry spirits, carry spirit speak now. Hello. Hi, Carol. Hi. Hi, Annette. Hi. Say your name and where you live again, just for the record. This is Carol Sito of 13 Turina Row. So in front of you is the, um, conservation approved, the, um, new water main coming in from old Connecticut path. Uh, the reason of the change is because, uh, the neighbor of, uh, 11 Turina Row, Manisa. She is concerned that the, uh, water line coming in from old Connecticut path might potentially damage the root system of the willow tree that is on the side of the property. So we have, um, my attorney to talk about, you know, a right to use the, uh, private waterway. And we also hire, uh, arbors to show the root system and how we're 25 feet away from the willow tree. And that will actually actually is not in good health. So the likelihood that even if we don't do the water line there, um, that willow tree eventually is, you know, in a, uh, declined health, but she's adamant that, you know, nothing can be remotely disturbing the root system. So this went on for about four meetings, public hearing. And so finally we decided, um, we would just cannot let this, you know, drag on. So Linda approached, uh, water department and asked them if it's possible to have the water line coming in from old kinetic path. And they said, uh, not a problem. My engineer, uh, Kevin has also talked to the water department and they said that it's not an issue either. So then we, um, agreed to make that concession basically is to have the water line come in from old kinetic path instead of the private way. Um, that actually, um, is, uh, in my mind, it is a lot easier because we don't really have to dig up the existing, uh, private way. That strip is the easement that is just grass area. Um, so, so then that's one of the conditions that they would agree to approve, uh, for conservation to approve the project. And so we just went along with it. You know, that did, that whole issue was brought up the very first meeting. And who, who was the engineer on that? Kevin. Jelson. Pardon me? Kevin, Kevin. Kevin Leary. Yeah. I remember him arguing that you, that was not the best way because there were too many joints. So that's why that kind of, but, you know, I think it's great. You've come to a solution. I think it's great that everyone says that's the way to do it. Cause that way you, if the tree dies, it's not going to be your fault. Right? Well, I think that it's really inappropriate, quite frankly, for the conservation commission to have done that. That's my own opinion. Um, Carol, if you want to do it. Um, and if the board is okay with it. Yeah. We, we have already agreed. This is an, and conservation actually already closed the hearing and they're in the process of writing the order of condition. Um, so that's why Linda notified Robert that, uh, that's a change of the water main coming in just so that we can make sure everything is reflected properly with the planning boards. Um, okay. So, um, for what you submit to us. Um, it, I don't know what the original. It needs somehow to be on the, on the equivalent of an original plan. Doesn't it Robert? Yeah. I would, I would. You need to help them and tell them which plan needs to be amended. Um, it's the site development plan. Um, so you would need the mylar of that reflect the water coming in. Okay. So I would, I would, I would submit the amendment with the page sheet that you're need to amend and with the very quick narrative, just explain what you're looking to do. Yeah. And once you do that, then we'll get you quick as soon as possible on it. You know, a regular. And then we'd have to amend the decision. Correct. And that would all have to get filed again. Yeah. Go for the whole process. But as soon as you, as you submit this and as soon as we can work and decide and rule on that. But is everyone okay with that? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Uh, Carol, are you done with conservation or are they still have one more permit? Um, in terms of the subdivision, they approve it on the 29th, September 29th. So Linda said the order of condition is coming out this week. Um, he said, well, we have 21 days. So I I'm sure as you're just. You know, taking her 21 days to write the order of condition. The other one, the other one is the lot. One, uh, the, uh, 194. And they also approve it. The last meeting, uh, October 8th. So, um, they, I, I hope that's what notify the building department because that's the only thing holding my building permit. And I'm still waiting. Uh, I'm sorry. Um, you might want to talk to somebody, for example, uh, in one of the oversight offices, just to explain the process you've been through. I, I, I don't know who I can talk to. I mean, this, this is like been two years and. I know. I think try the town manager. Hmm. Well. He's very approachable. Yeah. Thank you for the suggestions. I, I, I will take it under advisement. Okay. Thank you. All right. So, Rob. Yep. Go ahead. Sorry. I cut you off. So I will, uh, let Kevin knows that, um, we'll have to just go through this process, uh, for the amendment. Yeah. And just, if, if you need help, just, we can sit down and go for it before. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you.
I, I was aware on Friday that there was a meeting between Sudbury and Wayland on the Thursday before day four. Um, and so. It felt, I don't know if the planning board has any real role in this or not, but it felt like it'd be helpful for the plan board to discuss, to roll to either a rule that, yes, we should take an action or there's no action to be taken, but I didn't want, it appears that people would like the planning board to at least chime in if there is something that they need to do. This is a scenic road in Wayland, but it does not really, it doesn't appear to be involved in anything. I told you that Doug Stokes had asked for some time to make a presentation to the planning board. I'm not sure exactly whether we have any purview there, but he did want to make a presentation. Do you remember? You said you're going to put it at the end of the meeting. Yeah. Depends how long the presentation is. Well, if it's as long as what he submitted, no. Well, I put it on the agenda to have this discussion so that, because it was, I was asked to. Right, for a discussion, but that's not a presentation. I just want to understand what he wants to present.
I've looked at all the materials myself. I'm hoping others have, and I'd be curious what you guys think. I know what I think. I think it's a tough one for us to wade into. I think it's a tough one for us to have a little say-so or something, but. No, I mean, that's fine. I just, I'm not sure what kind of jurisdiction we have. In fact, I can't think of any. Can't think of any either. I attended the meeting in Sudbury, and frankly, I was surprised at everyone's reaction coming out. I thought they had a visioning meeting. They obviously gave it good thought. Everyone had an opinion. I like a rough bridge. I don't want a rough bridge. I want an old bridge. I want a smooth bridge. I want a railing that protects people. I want to cross the bridge. You know, it's like, yeah, bikers, cars, they've clearly thought of many of the things. I don't live by Sherman Bridge, so I'm sure people local have more to say, but I'm not sure what the planning board's role would be. Um, I do, I did have a brief conversation with Tom Holder just to understand what he thought our jurisdiction might be. And again, under the scenic road bylaw, we don't have jurisdiction under scenic road bylaw. Our only, uh, things that we can deal with are removal of trees on the scenic road and, um, removal or, uh, something happening to stone walls. Otherwise, we have no jurisdiction. Um, and it, I think it is really in the total purview of the DPW, um, because of the statute that created the DPW. Um, I'm happy to listen to people, but I just want them to hear from us now that there's really not much that we can do. And, and Mr. Holder said that they were in the pro that he had received some good comments, uh, at the meeting, uh, and they were in the process of revising the plans. And I think that he, I forget what, what the timeframe was, but I thought it was like within two weeks or something like that. So, um, I thought that was promising. I think the people made an impact at the hearing.
So, well, it wasn't clear before the meeting if they were going to keep the boat launch. Um, so I know a bunch of folks were concerned about that, but it looks like they are, um, so yeah, they, they're. Doing what they should be doing, I think. Okay. Um, shall I ask for public comment for a little, like 10 minutes? Cause it's, it's late. Um, it's 10 33. Public comment today, tonight? Well, we have a few hands up. Yeah, I think we should. I'm sorry. I think we should. Um, Yamini Ranjan, state your name and address, please. Uh, hello. Can you hear me? Yep. Just a second. So, okay. Um, my name is Yamini Ranjan, and I'm a resident of Weyland, 6th Shermans Bridge Road. I want to express my strong support for preserving Shermans Bridge, a place that obviously everybody knows beautifully reflects our town's character and connection to nature. Whenever friends and family visit, we always take them to see Shermans Bridge and enjoy the walk into the surrounding conservation area. It's one of the Weyland's most cherished, uh, spots. As plans move forward, I urge all of you, even if it doesn't fall in your jurisdiction, to preserve the bridge's historic and rural, uh, integrity. And to avoid using asphalt, you know, which would alter its natural look and feel, because I think the foundation is not being changed. It's the asphalt that is the major, uh, thing on it. Let's maintain the materials and character that makes this, uh, bridge really special. Thank you. Thank you for letting me speak. Thank you. Is there anyone else who feels that they want to speak?
No. Mr. Stotz, you don't want to speak now?
Okay. Yep. Now he is.
Uh, it would be tough for me to summarize the 86 pages. I think. I know. I think the planning board knows how I feel, but I thank you for the opportunity. And, uh, you know, I'm finding there's very broad community support from both communities to save Sherman's Bridge and certainly would appreciate all help and support. And, uh, if not jurisdiction, uh, the power of moral suasion that the, uh, planning board may choose to exercise on this matter. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Anybody else? Okay. Um, is there anything else that anybody has for, uh, comments and concerns? Uh, just, um, for the board, maybe, uh, we can do this in a future meeting, but I'm, uh, joining or have joined. You know, on my role on the CPC, um, they asked if there were initiatives or interest areas from the planning board on, um, recreation or historic, uh, activities from the planning board. So I'll just leave that out to folks. Um, I didn't have anything to propose projects. You mean? Yeah. Uh, that we might be interested in.
Okay. Another soccer field. Where in your backyard? Yeah. We take over a neighborhood. Did you ask for the housing thing to be, um, funded again, your housing? I have not, I have not asked for it, but yes, I am, I'm in process of, of some application. Um, so there will, there will be an application for that. Okay. Um, there was a, there was a, yeah, there was a, I, I noted to Susan that there was a, the, the changes, she had, she had a document and like weird track changes and you couldn't, you couldn't met, you couldn't change it. So she had to amend it. So I have not, I finished the application yet. Yep. And I'll, I'll follow up with you, Robert on, um, uh, conservation note. Um, and that said, uh, sent earlier today. Yeah. We need to be on that and just so that we know what's really happening. Yeah. Okay. Um, anything else?
Uh, if you, if there are things that you want on the next agenda, just send them forward. Uh, and in the meantime, I will think about what we have been working on and what we can push forward, uh, in between these big projects.
Okay. Is there a motion to adjourn? I move to adjourn. Second. All in favor, Robin Borkstead. Yes. Larry Kiernan. Yes. Ira Montague. Yes. Jesse Newberry. Yes. Annette Lewis. Yes. Thank you very much. Sorry. It's so late. Robert. Right. Good night, everyone. Good night.
Annette, I just want to mention, I see Nick Munkenbeck's iPhone in the attendees. Okay. If he'd like to join us, he can. Yeah. How do I get to see the list of participants?
You would go. Oh, there it is. I couldn't get it before. Sorry.
So Nick is listed as a panelist. Okay. Terrific. Hi, everybody. Hi. Glad to have you. We thought it would be a good idea for you to just start seeing the kinds of things we review and the detail we go into, so that you'll be ready when you have to do something. Okay. So is there any public comment on matters not in on the agenda? Please raise your hand if you have any.
I'll bet their hand raised.
You don't see any and I don't see any. Okay. I see. Oh, there is. Hanupi Chan, can you allow him to speak? If it's a him.
Hello. Hello. Please state your name and address. Yeah. My name is Hanupi Chan. I moved into number five, Christina, Turkey Hill last year.
Yes. You get me? We're not taking public comment on anything that's on the agenda. So if you want to speak about something that isn't on the agenda, please do. Yeah. This is about the Coptic church. Right. And this is not the right time for that. That will be handled. We'll have public comment during each of the hearings. Where would it be? The agenda is available. It's the next matter of business. Okay. And what we'll do, I'll explain the matter as we go through. Is that, what, the only thing you want to speak about?
Well, I have some point to point out about the church. No, this, I don't want to talk about the church right now. Oh, okay. I'll wait. Thank you. Thank you. As we, since we have lots of people here, as we go through, as I said before, because of the way we have to schedule meetings and give notice in the newspaper, the town planner chose to have an hour allocated for the Coptic church and a separate hour allocated for the Carroll school. I expect that we'll go over slightly in time, but not a lot. So I just want you to all understand that. We've read all everyone's comments. We understand the main issues affecting people. And as we begin each of the hearings, I will explain what our jurisdiction is and what it is not. We have very limited jurisdiction. So some of your concerns may be able to be addressed by the board. Others may be able to be addressed with the applicant. How are we doing for time, Robert?
Two more minutes. Is there, let's see.
Well, as we're waiting from the, we have one, one more minute, maybe. Has everybody on the board read through the materials? Yes. Okay. Because that'll help enormously.
Who is here from the applicants, from the, the church applicant side? I have. I have a few. I have the other hands. And can you, okay. And can you elevate them? Sure.
Some of you.
Robert, is there a way to copy all the participants listed here? We have to do a screenshot right now. If you can during the meeting, I would appreciate it. Sure. It's now 710. And I'd like to call to order the public hearing on PB2502, 169 Rice Road, Map 40, Lot 008, St. Philippator Mercurius, and St. Minna Coptic Orthodox Church site plan approval public hearing. Good evening, representatives. The way I'd like to run the meeting this evening is to have you do a presentation of the project. We have all looked at the materials, but we'd like an overview summary. And so the public can understand what you're proposing as well. Then the board will ask questions, followed by public comment. And we're going to try and stick to a reasonable time frame. We've allotted an hour. I expect it will go over slightly, but we don't have much leeway in time. And so as we begin, I just want to, for everyone, run through these applications, the requirements that the planning board can apply to this application. Under state law, Massachusetts, Chapter 40A, Section 3, which is referred to as the Dover Amendment because of a particular case that occasioned the adoption of this statute. And these are subjects which zoning may not regulate. So paragraph two is referred to as the Dover Amendment, and it says, No zoning ordinance or bylaw shall prohibit, regulate, or restrict the use of land or structures for religious purposes or for educational purposes on land owned or leased by a religious sect or denomination, or by a non-profit educational corporation, provided, provided, however, that such land or structures may be subject to reasonable regulations concerning the bulk and height of structures and determining yard sizes, lot area, setbacks, open space, parking, and building coverage requirements. We also have a Wayland bylaw, Section 198-601, that mirrors the state statute but goes a little bit further. And Section 606.3 of the bylaw says, When reviewing and acting on a site plan application for the principal use of land or a building or structure for daycare, educational, nursery school, or religious uses that are exempt from regulation under Massachusetts General Laws, Chapter 40A, Section 3, The Planning Board shall apply reasonable regulations concerning the bulk and height of structures and determining yard sizes, lot area, setbacks, open space, parking, and building coverage requirements as set forth in the zoning bylaw, Except to the extent that the applicant shows that the regulation is unreasonable and unrelated to a legitimate municipal concern and will substantially detract or diminish the applicant's ability to conduct the exempt use. As the applicant is explaining the project, I hope that, I know that the board and I hope that the public will think about those things that we've just spoken about that can be regulated and make your comments accordingly. So, who is it who's speaking first this evening? Is it you, Mr. Silversky? Somebody's echoing. Hi, I'm, I'm, I'm Sean Landon and I'm representing, um, St. Philippiter Church, um, from, uh, Studio DSK, uh, where the architects, uh, where the architects, uh, where the architects, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's echoing, so if, please mute yourselves. Thank you. I'm sorry, Mr. Landon. No worries. Um, so I will be giving the introduction of the project, uh, to you all. And, um, we have, um, joining us, um, part of our team. So I have, uh, Courtney Borelli, uh, from DSK as well. Um, and I have, um, uh, representatives from St. Philippiter, I believe, uh, Maged Barsum and, uh, Deacon George Gailey. Um, and we have, uh, Oak Consulting, uh, Sean Malone and Crowley Cottrell Landscape, uh, Naomi, I'm sorry, Naomi Cottrell from Crowley Cottrell. So, um, um, I'll do the introduction and we also have, um, the owner's legal counsel, Jonathan Silverstein on, um, to help us out. So, um, if, uh, if you'd like, I can start with the introduction. Terrific. Thank you. So St. Philippiter Mercurius and St. Mia Coptic Orthodox Church is proposing, uh, the development of a new church complex that will serve the spiritual, social, and communal needs, uh, of its congregation. Um, the project, uh, is located on 169 Rice Road, as you know. Um, it will consist of, uh, three main buildings and, uh, will be supported by, um, uh, parking. Um, there is a, uh, a central courtyard, uh, within the center of the buildings, which is open air. Uh, and there is a soccer field. Um, we have, um, we have, um, two, uh, entrances or, or driveways, uh, to the property. Do you think it might help if you, um, if we shared, let you share the screen and you could point those things out? Yes. Uh, Courtney, I don't know if you're on and have that up and can share that easily. Sean, would you like me to, uh, share the, the site plans? I have the existing condition available. That'd be extremely helpful. Thanks, Sean. I also have an illustrative plan if you want that. Great. Okay. So what we have on the screen right now is, uh, the existing conditions. Um, and as you can see, there is, um, there is a main building, which is the, the church that is in use today. Um, I don't know if you guys can see my cursor. No. Yes. Now we can. I'll try it. This is, this is me doing this, Sean. I'll try to follow along with you. Perfect. Perfect. So the main entrance, uh, is, uh, is, is just to, um, it's planned South, but that's actually West. Um, and as you enter in off of, um, uh, Rice Road, uh, you can, uh, go either to the right into the parking, which I believe there are, uh, 80 something spaces there now, 86 or 87. Um, and the, uh, occupant load there is currently about 300 and just short of 370, uh, consists of the church and a, uh, on a function hall. Um, and then to the left of that, which would be North, um, is a, an existing soccer field. And just below that is a, uh, an exit, um, off to Turkey Hill. Um, up behind the, the existing church is, is wooded land, um, which is sits between, um, uh, essentially rice road and Turkey Hill. Um, and it is, it is heavily wooded. Um, so those are the existing conditions that we're, we're dealing with what we're proposing. And if, um, Naomi, if your plan has, um, the new plan, that would be helpful. Yeah. I'm going to load this or try to load this. Let me see if I can, um. Perfect. Can everybody see that? Yes. Can you blow it up a bit? I sure can. You should be able to do that within the application, Larry. Yep. Oh. Yourself. Well, if they can do a full screen, that would be good for everyone. Yeah. That's full screen. If you'd like me to zoom in more, I can. Let me try to do that. So I'll, while she's doing that, um, thank you, Naomi. Uh, I'll start by saying that, um, the building on the right hand side, which is in a vertical format is, um, is a proposed church. We're going to refer to that as building A and that's how it's referred to through the plans. Um, to the left of that is building B and that's a youth center, Sunday school and senior housing. Uh, and then the building at the bottom there is, um, what we call building C and that's the, um, diocese center. Um, this is planned to be a phased construction with the church, um, being the first, uh, of the three, uh, buildings. Um, and so you can see in the center there is a courtyard. The, the two buildings, A and B are built into the hillside, uh, as, uh, if you visited the site, the, the elevation difference between the front of the church and the back of the hill, uh, which is to the east side, north on the page is about 30 feet difference. So what we've tried to do is, um, thoughtfully push the buildings into the side of the hill so as to eliminate, um, much of the height, um, that is, um, uh, shown to the, the neighbors in, in the, um, turkey hill development. Um, the, the landscape around the perimeter of the, the site is, um, we're, we're planning to keep the existing trees, um, all around to, to create a buffer, um, between the project and the neighborhood, and that will happen on all four sides. Um, the soccer field down in the bottom left corner there, which is on the north, um, we'll have some, uh, trees around it, but it will be, you know, visible to, uh, you know, motorists and walkers, you know, just people, um, using turkey hill and rice road. So, um, the buildings, as I said, are, are, are planned to be phased. Um, they are positioned so that they meet the zoning setback requirements. And, um, I just want you to know that the, the project is proposed to be a hundred percent compliant. The buildings parking and use satisfy all the requirements of the zoning bylaws. Um, we know we've, um, we've got phased construction and we believe that each of the buildings as they happen in, in period, different, um, periods of time will, will, um, take approximately 18 months to build. Um, but like I said, that will happen over, um, uh, different periods of time, um, over the years. So building a, the church, uh, is two and a half stories. It's approximately 35,000 square feet. Um, we have ground level, uh, which, uh, has a function hall and service spaces. Um, there is a, a kitchen and a bakery down there. Um, there are bathrooms and lots of storage on the main level. Um, you, uh, need to get to that via the bridal stairs on the front of the building, which is pointing west or down on the page. And once you enter in through the front doors, uh, you have some service spaces, uh, to your left and to your right with elevators and stairs. And then you enter into the central nave followed by the, um, the, um, the, um, the author. Um, you can make your way to building B when building B comes online, uh, from this level. Um, and so, um, on that, that level, you have, um, uh, classrooms and also, um, you, you will move into the, the left-hand portion of that where there would be, um, additional, uh, classrooms. Uh, and on the second level, the upper level, there is a, um, a gym or a basketball court, uh, and back over on the left-hand side of that there is, um, there's senior housing. If you move to the bottom building, there is, this is the diocese center, so there is a function hall on the main level. Um, it, uh, two is, uh, two and a half, two stories, sorry. Um, it's about 24,000 square feet. And I'm sorry, I didn't mention the, the B and C, uh, size, but that's, that's about 60,500 square feet. So back down to building, uh, C at the bottom, um, uh, roof height is 35 feet as is the roof height on building B and C. Um, and it, building C also has, uh, some, uh, three basic sleeping quarters for visiting, um, uh, leaders of the church, um, and other support spaces. So surrounding the, uh, the, the building complex, you have parking on the left, um, and then small one in the front, which is on the west side and one on the east side. Uh, we are meeting the, uh, number of parking spaces, which is one to three, that would give us, um, 190 spaces for our 570 applicants or occupants. Sorry. Um, uh, let me see. So in terms of site access, uh, we come in, uh, through the main driveway in the front, which is just below the church. It's on the west side. Um, and you have the option of parking either on the right-hand side, which is the south. If you're going to the church, um, the parking just below building C is, uh, for the diocese center. And then on the left-hand side, um, you have, uh, more parking for, uh, building B and C. Um, there used to be, uh, three driveways to, uh, this complex, uh, the existing complex, which there are now. Um, and we are eliminating one and we're moving the main driveway, um, uh, to the south, uh, about 30 feet. So it aligns with the front of the church. Um, the driveway on the left used to exit out onto the foot of Turkey Hill. And now it is on Rice Road as well. It is an exit only, and you can only travel, uh, north on that, uh, out of that driveway. You cannot turn left and, and move south. Um, the main driveway, you have the option of going either direction. Um, so total lot coverage, um, we are under the 20% um, requirement. I believe we're at about 18%. Um, the, let me see, the height number of stories meet the requirements for, um, for, uh, B and C. Um, the towers on the church are taller, but, um, according to the Wayland bylaw 198.701, uh, I believe, um, we are allowed, our church, uh, spires in towers to, um, to, to travel that height, to be that height. Um, let's see what else we have. So the landscape design, as you can see here, um, is, uh, is, is pretty green, um, on top of all the perimeter trees that are to remain. Um, we are, as you can see, removing quite a few trees, but we are trying to replace them. Um, according to the Wayland, um, tree replacement, uh, guidelines, we meet that, um, through the use of both trees and shrubberies. Um, we have, uh, we have trees in, in our islands as well. Um, and also in our courtyard and, and other, um, uh, places that we feel are best used to block sun and, um, work, uh, towards our passive solar. Um, in terms of, uh, passive solar, um, we've oriented the buildings, um, into the hillside, uh, and with, with, with a building this size, it's, it's hard to keep the large windows, uh, you know, to, uh, to the north, uh, obviously. Um, but we feel like we've done a good job of, of working with the, uh, the existing landscape. Um, and with active solar, we're planning on using, um, photovoltaic panels on top of both, um, the B and C buildings. So, um, we feel like we're, we're being responsible in that manner. Um, I know there's a lot of concern about, uh, lighting in a neighborhood like this, but we have, um, we have hired, um, Burrow Happel to do a lighting study, uh, for the site. And, um, we've done, um, uh, studies for not only the parking lot, but for the building. Although the lighting has not been designed yet, as we're only going through the site plan, uh, process, um, we are looking at, uh, one to two foot candles throughout the parking lot and similar, uh, light levels that emanate through the, the, through the windows, uh, that spill out onto the grounds that surround the building.
Um, in turn, but we also had Burrow Happel do an acoustic study. Um, we were concerned about noise, uh, coming from, uh, both, um, uh, vehicles as well as, um, building, uh, mechanics. And the plan is for the church to locate, um, uh, the mechanical units, uh, on the site in a, um, enclosed, uh, uh, place that makes the most sense. We have not located that just yet. Um, we will also utilize the the roofs of, uh, B and C and share the, the roof space with the, um, with the solar panels for those mechanical systems and they will be screened. Uh, let me see. I believe, uh, also with the last thing that I want to talk about too, is there's a, we've, we've had a traffic study, an extensive traffic study, uh, done, uh, for the site, um, that basically compared the existing conditions with the proposed conditions. And, um, um, it was a comprehensive, uh, traffic study, um, that basically determined that the project can, uh, can be accommodated with, um, existing roadway capacity and meet, uh, minimal impact for, uh, traffic along rice road. Um, as I stated about the access points to, um, to the parking, uh, we have, uh, uh, minimized those points, um, to, uh, increase safety. Um, and we have now, uh, like I said, uh, what is it? Um, 190 spaces. So, um, that pretty much sums up my, uh, introduction to the project. And I guess if you have any questions, we're here to, to answer them. Um, I'll ask the rest of the board, uh, to proceed first. I have a number of questions. Um, who would like to go first on the board? I just want to, can you give a little bit more detail on the housing that you have there? Is it all going to be affordable and how large are the units just out of curiosity? So, I don't know if Miguel is, is on the, uh, the line and can speak best about, um, the intentions for the, for the housing. Hey, good evening, everybody. Can you hear me? Yeah. Um, so, thank you so much for, uh, uh, reviewing this tonight. So, uh, so we have, uh, the, the Coptic Church has been in the Boston area for about 60 years or so, and we have quite a few seniors that are really unable to come to church, right? So, the senior housing, uh, these are small units. They're either one bedroom or studio. Uh, the expectations is that most of the people occupying those will be, uh, church members. However, it is not limited to church members, so it is going to be open to the community, but practically speaking, we think a large percentage of those would be, uh, you know, from the Coptic community wanting to be closer to, uh, to the services being offered by the church. Would that count towards our inventory, Annette? It depends on how they think they're setting it up and whether it, in fact, is an exempt use. Oh, right, right, right, right. And so, we'll get into that later with their lawyer, I assume. Yeah. Okay. So, I think Jonathan is better able to address that question. Thank you. And I'm happy to do that now or wait, whatever. Um, if you, well, I'd really, let's do some other stuff first because that could be a little more contentious. Um, are there any other questions from the board and Robin? Hi, sorry, I was muted. Um, so I have a couple of questions, a lot about the housing, but we'll get to that later. Uh, I'm just going to kind of work backwards in terms of lighting. So, you don't intend to light the dome or the towers at night because that would certainly be, uh, inconsistent with dark sky and very intrusive for the neighborhood. So, do you intend to light the dome and the towers or not? So, the plan is to have, um, some lighting in there, but the plan is also to have them on a time clock, um, so that they're not, uh, shining all night long. Uh, and I don't know exactly what the proposed hours are for that. You had midnight in the application. I'm sorry? The application referred to midnight. Okay. I think that that is, um, negotiable, you know, um, but that's not for me to say. Okay. Um, so that was one concern. Uh, you would talk about that exit to the north and that you have, um, moved the exit and you're only going to allow people to travel north from there. Um, I would have some concerns that if people are leaving that new exit and traveling north, they're going to make it very difficult for people to get out of Turkey Hill Road at certain times of day. How are you going to deal with that? That's going to be quite a conflict.
Um, I'll have to talk with our traffic consultants to, um, better understand the, the best ways to handle that. Okay. Um, and the traffic study was done, uh, when school was not in session in June and July. So that probably doesn't represent the actual traffic the rest of the year on rice road. So is that going to be redone at a time of year when there's normal traffic on the road and when your congregation attendance is normal? Well, the heaviest flows in times of use for the, for this church is, is during the weekend. Right. But in June and July, I would imagine you have the fewest parishioners coming to services compared to October. Um, I personally can't speak to that, but if I, if I could, uh, if just, um, since, uh, MDM transportation. Oh, I'm sorry, Madam Chair. My name is Jonathan Sulferstein. I'm counsel for the applicant. Um, MDM transportation conducted the TIA, the traffic impact assessment. Uh, we didn't anticipate getting into the, the weeds on the traffic study at this introductory meeting, but we certainly, and so MDM is not here. We certainly do anticipate having them, um, at a, at least one future meeting. And, and one of the items I anticipated we would be discussing tonight would be sort of a path forward and scheduling and, and, and finding out when, uh, you would like us to have MDM here. So we're obviously happy to do our best in, in addressing those types of questions, but I suspect that you'd be better served by us taking notes and, uh, having MDM ready to, uh, address them when they're before you, uh, at a future hearing session. I will say that, um, um, whether it's traffic assessments conducted during COVID or during summer hours, they're very standard, uh, and accepted professional practices among transportation engineers to account for changes in condition because you can't always pick when, you know, the busiest time of year. And so I suspect that MDM is going to be able to tell you that they accounted for those types of variables in a standard way. But if that's not the case, then obviously we're happy to address it. Okay. Um, from the plans, it wasn't completely clear to me. Um, are there retaining walls that are within the setback areas, particularly to the south and east side of the, of the, um, site? So the, the high part of the site is the east side primarily, and the building foundations, um, will be designed as, as such, um, to retain that land. Um, but there are no, uh, retaining walls that are just, uh, out there to hold back, um, uh, you know, earth, uh, they're used for the building foundation. If I may, uh, Sean Malone Oak Consulting Group, I'm the civil engineer for the project. Um, just to clarify, um, there is a, uh, retaining wall along the southeastern portion of the property line right there. Thank you, Naomi. Um, and that is within the setback. And the reason that we need that wall is because we have this fire lane around the back of the building required by the fire department and with the grades as, as they are, we do need the retaining wall to, to accommodate that. Okay. So, but that is in the setback area. It is. Okay. Um, do you know if the, uh, I saw the letter from the fire chief today, so it doesn't look like you've gotten too far in the process with him. Have you discussed with him whether that access road can be gravel or if it needs to be a hard surface? Yes. We've had, uh, several meetings with the assistant chief and one meeting with the assistant chief and chief, um, to discuss this plan. I have not reviewed their comments in depth, but, uh, based on our last meeting, my understanding is they were, they were comfortable with what we're presenting as gravel. Okay. Um, the soccer field, will there be a fence around the soccer field and will that be in the setback area? Yes, there will be a fence around it. And some of that will be in the setback. Is that correct? Uh, if you can bring up the plan again, um, Naomi, I, I believe that it is in, in the setback. Yes. Yes.
Yeah. I think it is in a couple places. Yeah. Um, and then lastly, you talked about how you're leaving so many trees on the site. Um, can you tell me exactly how many large trees you're leaving on the site? I counted 10. Um, I, I can't tell you how many are actually being left there. Um, I'd have to, I have to go back and look at the, um, survey that we had done. Yeah. We, Robin, we haven't, we haven't done the calculation for how many we've left. We've done the calculations for removals and replacements, but I will just point out that within this front section of the property as it abuts Rice Road, we're leaving, um, more than 10 trees in, in that area. So yeah, I guess other than on Rice Road on the backside, other than Rice Road, I, I counted from the tree plan, I counted 10 trees that are being left and that was it other than on Rice Road. Uh, yeah. And I, I haven't done that calculation, but again, we, we were doing the couch calculations for replacements based on the, the, the tree replacement regulations. Okay. Um, I think that's all I have for now. Next. Okay. Is there anybody else? Ira, not Ira, um, Larry, or. Oh, I'm good. Uh, thank you for the presentation. You're welcome. Jesse. Uh, I, so seeing just such a big expansion like this, um, from what it is now to, to, to, to what the proposed plan is in its final state, like my concerns go to drainage, water, wastewater, um, septic. And I see that all outlined here and I know that our DVW friends have weighed in on all of that. I just wanted to make sure that, um, we discussed that at least and, and, and ensure that there's proper plans for all of that. At some point too, I did see, it looked like Robert might've tried to count trees that are there now versus trees that are in the plan. And that's, that's a little out of balance, balance too. So, um, to Robin's point, definitely want to see more on that. Um, I'm concerned about the parking, uh, or not the parking, the driveway that you're moving from Turkey Hill to the front. If you can only exit north and people want to go south, but you've got a lot of people in there and they just want to get out, I think it's likely that they'll pull into Turkey Hill and turn around. How are we going to prevent that? I'm not sure how to speak about that. As, um, as Jonathan, uh, stated, I think that we need, um, to hear, uh, from MDM on that. Okay. Well then just put it on the list of, of things, if you don't mind. Thank you. Um, the 18 months to build each building, what is your overall time duration from, uh, the beginning of construction to the end? Uh, I think that's still being determined because there are, um, three, uh, separate buildings. I think the church, uh, needs to determine, um, you know, what is, what works for, for them. Um, the first building, the church, um, wants to, I, I, I think happen, you know, as soon as they can do that. Um, but the remaining two buildings, um, that would, um, that'll be determined by, by them and, um, their abilities to do that. Um, our, our regulations talk about, um, how long a site plan is good for and the steps that you have to take in there. So we're going to need to understand what it is that you're talking about and what the duration is. Okay. Um, you're using solar, uh, panels on the B and C buildings, but the B and C buildings aren't going to be built right away. So it's conceivable that technology, depending on what your timeline is, that technology may change during that timeframe. Um, and you're asking us essentially for an approval now. Um, so you need to think about that as well. Um, when I read the, the traffic study, it appeared to me that it was only looking at phase one. If I'm wrong, I'd like somebody to correct that. But if that is all that is being looked at, then it really isn't a sufficient study to say that there won't be backups, uh, coming in and out of the property.
Um, I think you should think about the setback issue. Um, soccer field, um, although it's nice to have, uh, and, uh, probably had something to do with keeping your kids happy. Um, isn't necessarily as strictly religious use. Um, and I think you should think about keeping out of the setback areas and think about the lighting. Uh, I don't think that the neighbors would be happy to have lights in the towers until midnight. So I think you need to have a more realistic approach to that. Um, also think about where it is that you're planning on putting signage that would be visible from the roadway and let us know where that is.
The current plan for the church sign is to, there is one by the main entrance, uh, presently. And the plan is to reuse that sign and go, um, back towards, uh, back at the main entrance, the main entrance. Thank you. Um, just want to pull out a few of the, uh, other documents. While you're looking at that on the lighting, um, I noticed walking through town center that, uh, Unitarian church and the public safety building are being lit from the ground up, um, in purple. Uh, I'm not sure if we always do that, but no, we don't. It's just for Robert. There's a, I forget what exactly what purpose is, there's a, there's a special month for the purple. It's this month. I believe it's for the opiates. It's only for the opiates. Yeah. I don't know what time they turn off those lights. They're not on real late. Um,
I guess we should get into the housing a little bit. Um, and I'd like you to explain to us, um, the, how you charge for them, um, whether you're thinking of making them, um, um, SHI acceptable or just what your program is. So I'll, I'll start off, um, and again, might want to answer some of the details. I don't know anything about anticipated rents or, um, whether any of the units would, um, would be restricted, um, such as to be countable on the SHI. Um, I will say that the intent as Maget indicated of these units is to address an ongoing problem that the church has been experiencing for years where, um, people who are members of the church are traveling from an hour or more away. Many of them are elderly, um, either no longer drive or aren't comfortable driving at night. It's been, uh, um, real impediment to attendance at services and other religious functions and church functions. What the church has been doing is, um, running a shuttle service to go and pick people up from different towns, bring them to church. Um, that's obviously, uh, not sustainable. It keeps these people in a car for a long time while different people get picked up, um, all over, um, the region. And so the intent of the, these small housing units is, uh, to have an opportunity for people who frankly can't afford to live in Wayland, but are members of the church, want to have better access to the church, to the community, um, to the services being offered to be able to live on site, which if anything is going to, um, reduce traffic, uh, during the peak periods of the church's church, uh, traffic generation, um, and that these, um, members of the church would then have better access and better ability, um, to attend religious functions without, and, and substantially reducing the burden on church staff and volunteers to drive all over the state, picking people up. Um, um, and, and so that's the intent of these units. Um, we get indicated that, um, these, some of these units are, you know, that are not occupied at any given time by members of the church, um, might be made available to the community as a whole. That's really viewed as a public benefit, something the church would offer. It doesn't need to do that. Um, but this will be sort of a unique opportunity. If there are units available, it would be at least a lowercase affordable option for a single person or maybe a couple, um, to, uh, have a place, an affordable place to live, uh, in town. So we're open to doing that. We don't have to do that. As I said, this is really geared towards, um, facilitating members of the church, being able to participate in church functions. So at some point in time, you might not have as many elderly people that you have this issue with and you're building 24 units. So I'd like to understand, um, what the plan is when you don't and where those people would park and how that then would fit under the Dover amendment. So, um, I think it fits under the Dover amendment because it is inextricably intertwined. It is allowing people, and, and Magenta can speak to this. I think it's frankly, not consistent with the history of the church in this location, um, to suspect that there's going to be anything less than, uh, the current demand. Um, because the church's intent experience goals is to, uh, keep parishioners who are in the area, uh, as members of the church, as long as possible. And as they age, um, they're gonna want access to those units. And so, um, I don't, uh, I don't see any reason to believe that there's going to be a reduction in demand for elderly, um, population among church members. But again, can you speak to sort of over the last 20 years? Um, have you seen no great shifts in that demographic? Yeah. So, so just historically, right. They, they, the Coptic community started in Massachusetts probably around the early seventies, right? So a lot of the people that are going to be making use of, of these, of this housing are people that immigrated to the U S you know, Coptic members of the church that came in the seventies or eighties, right? So they're now in their sixties and so forth, right? Um, the first church, Coptic church was set up in Massachusetts around 1991. Today, I believe there are 10 Coptic, uh, Orthodox churches in Massachusetts. So, uh, over the last, you know, 30 some years, the number have gone from one to, you know, 10. So it's a, you know, a tenfold increase. And obviously as the generation ages, the need for, you know, senior housing will also increase with that. Right. So we don't really see that number going down. Actually, we see it going up, not down. Right. Just based on the pipeline of, you know, individuals that are, you know, today in their fifties who are in 15 years are going to be needing these services. There is way more than we can accommodate at, uh, at, uh, at the 24 proposed units. Thank you. Um, and as to the, oh, I'm sorry. I was just going to answer quickly your question about parking. Oh yeah. We'll answer that and then I'll go further. Sure. So, um, these are members of the church, the parking demand, parking requirements calculated based on seats in the church. These are people who who you have said that. And that we got, I'm asking you when you don't have church members and you open it up to the public or whatever, what again, that's, we don't have to do that. Uh, well, I'm not asking you, I'm not trying to discourage you. I'm just asking how you have thought through that. I think if, and when that we get to that point, we're going to see that as is very often the case, parking requirements in zoning bylaws, um, require vastly over parked, um, facilities. And I think you're going to see that parking utilization is probably going to be much lower. If we're having a situation where the parking lot is full all the time, then we probably wouldn't do that. Probably wouldn't do what? Wouldn't open it up to non-church members. Okay. Um, I'm going to ask if you would prepare, um, a memo for us explaining why this falls under the Dover amendment, because we're having difficulty with the housing trying to under, I think most of us are trying to understand how that particular piece, um, fits under the Dover amendment. Certainly. Um, are there any other questions from the board? I'll open it up to the public now. Um, I hope you keep your comments, uh, concise, listening to the things that we've already spoken about. Um, I know that we've received notices or comments from the public, primarily about the height of the towers, the, uh, lighting coming from the towers, the traffic on the roadway, uh, and the cutting of trees. Um, so we know those issues. And if there are other, you're certainly welcome to mention them, but please don't dwell on them. If there are other issues, we'd really appreciate that. So raise your hand and we'll call on you in series, uh, Dennis Murphy, please state your name and address. Uh, good evening, Madam chair, members of the board. Uh, my name is attorney Dennis Murphy. Uh, I represent the Turkey Hill, uh, uh, village, uh, board, and I'm, uh, grateful for the opportunity to provide some preliminary comments on the, uh, site plan review. Um, hopefully that my summary can streamline things and you won't have to hear from, uh, many different people on the same issue. Um, we, we share many of the concerns that the board has already articulated, including, uh, uh, the screening, the landscape plan, the deforestation of trees. Um, I have more questions than comments at this point. And my first question is whether or not there's a lot of information. And I wonder if the board intends to engage peer reviewers to advise you on technical matters, like the traffic study, the stormwater report, acoustics, uh, thank you for that. And I, I would, I have one request on behalf of, uh, the Turkey Hill folks. If, if you could include in your scope of peer review and assessment of that landscaping plan, um, and in particular, uh, the, the screening that borders the Turkey Hill Village property, uh, because that's a great concern to those folks. Thank you. Uh, next, uh, Sylvia Diaz. Hi, Annette. Hi, everybody. Um, I'm not going to dwell in your, state your address, Sylvia. That's correct. Uh, Sylvia Diaz, one brandy wine, Turkey Hill Village. Um, we still, I still have a lot of questions that, well, you know, Sean and everybody else was talking, they haven't filled in the blanks and I have about the number of trees they will actually, and shrubs, they will actually be replanting, um, you know, the, the, the, uh, screening on rice road or whatever. Can we send you Annette for, um, to you a list of those questions to be clarified as opposed to taking time here? You can send them to Robert Hummel, the town planner, copy the planning board, and he will send them on to the applicant. Okay. Thank you. So we don't take more time from your busy schedule already. Thank you. Um, Arlene Chase. Arlene Chase, 10 Astra, part of Turkey Hill Village. I think I don't have questions right now because the information is incomplete. Um, when will the next meeting be? We'll have to talk about that when we're done with public comment. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Uh, Matt Lineweber. Can you unmute yourself, Mr. Lineweber and speak? Thank you. Matt Lineweber. I live at 802 Mysterio Way in the Meadows. Um, I have just some general comments and I think applied to the Dover Amendment. I am not an attorney, uh, by no means. Um, but the, the issues, the issues that will face us in regard to the Dover Amendment, um, I don't believe are as black and white as we've, uh, sort of articulated. There's a lot of case laws that go, uh, many ways on the Dover Amendment. And it's my understanding that, you know, in the Dover Amendment, um, we can impose, we, we can impose reasonable restrictions on neighborhood combat, compatibility. All right. And I hope that, um, the architects, uh, and the church are, are really, really looking at that. Um, Rice Road, as we know, is a designated scenic road. And, you know, what's reasonable on Route, on Route 20 and Route 30 and Route 126 and 27 is not reasonable on Rice Road on that. Uh, that's number one. Um, I want to talk a little bit about, uh, the traffic and the safety. Um, Rice Road is a dangerous road. Anyone who's walked on it and anyone who's been on a bicycle on it knows how treacherous it is. Um, I know there is another Coptic church at the other end of Rice Road. I don't know what the relationship to this Coptic church is, but I will tell you on a, and, and the scope of that, the scope of the size of that Coptic church, uh, the physical scope, I don't know about the membership, but the scope of that, that, that, the size of that footprint seems much smaller than this footprint. If you drive, uh, there on a Sunday, it's the poster child for congestion on that. And, you know, this, this is going to be a bigger, uh, bigger, uh, project than that, um, in an area, in, in, in a roadway that is not anywhere near what that other end of Rice Road is. Um, so I hope that we, we, we look at that very, very seriously. Um, the Dover amendment allows, uh, for reasonable restrictions for traffic conditions, and as I said, neighborhood compatibility and scale. Um, and in regard to the, the two towers, um, you know, if you look at the religious institutions in, in, um, Wayland, uh, I suspect that other than the Unitarian church, nobody's going up that high. And I just find it interesting that we have to manifest our faith, uh, based on height of a, a spire. I don't, I, I, I really don't understand that. Um, and you know, that being said, uh, as Annette, as Annette mentioned, um, soccer field and housing, I don't know if that's totally consistent with the Dover amendment. So, you know, as I said, as our shared scriptures say to love your neighbor, um, I hope that, uh, this project will show your neighbor some love. Thank you. Uh, Jeff Worthington.
Yes. Good evening. Uh, Jeff Worthington, 1602 Wisteria Way. Uh, I wanted to add, uh, some additional comments about the lighting, uh, and requests that a peer review of the lighting plan also be included, uh, to ensure compliance with really the five principles for responsible outdoor lighting, uh, as put forth by dark sky international and the illuminating, illuminating engineering society. The overview document that has been provided on the town website, uh, I think provide is somewhat insufficient and in some ways, uh, uh, misleading in terms of the usage of dark sky compliance. So I know the lighting plan hasn't been developed, but I would encourage that there's more to it than luminaires that have a full cutoff. I think there needs to be greater attention, uh, paid to, uh, the use of motion sensors, uh, timers and other devices. I would note that dark sky compliance for particularly for the parking lot, uh, has to do also with the pole height. I would point out that the current church parking, the poles are very low and the lights are off when there were no, uh, services going on. The document that was provided online has parking lots going 50% dim or off at midnight. I think, uh, it should be more in line with their off or significantly dimmed when there were no activities. I don't know why. I mean, this is not Walmart. The lights do not parking lot nights do not need to be on till, uh, midnight. So anyway, many other points in that, but I know the plan hasn't been developed, but it would encourage, uh, peer review for full dark sky compliance. Thank you. Uh, Beth Rainer. Beth Rainer, uh, Christina, uh, Turkey Hill Village. I had a question, uh, regarding the parking lot phasing, uh, in conjunction with the phases of the project. My understanding from one of the previous, uh, committee meetings was that the third phase might not start for 10 years from now. Um, and my question is to, to the applicant, um, when will the parking be built in relation to each phase? So if you're building the first building, are you putting in all the parking at that first, uh, at that first, um, portion of the project? Or is the phasing of the parking going to be consistent with the amount of buildings that you have on the site? It seems like a lot of parking to put in at the beginning when you're only going to have one building is, is my thought. Thank you. Um, the applicant can answer that if they'd like right now. Miguel, do you want to take that or can I, I can answer that. Um, so the, the occupant load for the church is about 570, uh, occupants and we need to support, um, parking for the, the people coming to, uh, church. Um, the other buildings, because they're related to, uh, the church, um, uh, will be a part of that parking, um, number. So, um, Jonathan, if you have anything, uh, different to say about that, um, maybe you can add that, but no, I, I was just going to say that, um, the, we're not, we didn't choose this number out of the blue where we chose it to comply with the requirements of the zoning bylaw. Um, and those requirements relate to the church itself because that's going to, at any given time, that's going to be the largest generator of parking demand. Um, people who are working at the church in the administrative offices in the front building are going to be in church when churches in session, people who are, um, going to Sunday school or going to the youth center. Again, they're not going to be, these are, these aren't additive uses, they're complimentary uses. Um, and so, um, the buildings B and C are not going to add traffic demand because the highest possible traffic demand demand is going to be the church itself. And that goes to, uh, another question that I think someone raised about the, uh, scope of the traffic study. Again, MDM can respond to that, but the fact of the matter is that, um, um, when, when there are not church services taking place, the demand of those other two buildings is going to be a small portion of what the domain generated by the churches. So that's why they don't require additional traffic. You're not going to have. That's a, that's enough for right now. Thank you. I appreciate it. Um, I'm going to take three more public comments. I hope they'll be short, and then we're going to go on to scheduling. I, Karen, I have three here, Karen Blumenfeld, Betty Bussell, and Nikki G. Karen. Hi, Karen Blumenfeld, 113 Oxbow Road. Very quick comment. Um, I had the privilege of meeting people from the Coptic Church in Weyland and the Coptic Church in Natick. Um, the members of this church, they are lovely people, good neighbors, and valuable members of our community. Um, and, you know, Weyland aspires to be a welcoming community, and I hope we can demonstrate our welcoming nature even as we ask them questions about the details of their proposal. Thank you. Thank you. Betty Bussell. Thank you. Um, Betty Bussell. I live at 8 Essex, um, Turkey Hill Village. I'm also chair of the Turkey Hill Village Board of Managers. Um, many of the issues that have already come up tonight are certainly of concern to us. Um, I would just want to comment on, uh, a couple things that, um, that concern us that necessarily haven't come up just yet. Uh, that includes our understanding is that one of the septic systems is going to be under one of the parking areas right next to Turkey Hill Road, uh, which makes that, uh, a concern for us. I want to also talk again about the parking. Um, why we like having the church next door. We have already had issues with parking on Turkey Hill Road. People parking along the grass, turning around, uh, if there truly is that right turn only, people are not going to be able to get out of Turkey Hill Village. And the one other thing I wanted to mention that hasn't come up yet is that, uh, that road that we're talking about, that kind of the emergency road on the one side of the church that goes into the trails for Turkey Hill. That is also the only other, um, route. It's an emergency route for people to also get out of Turkey Hill Village. It's our only other means of egress. So that road area, um, our perspective really still needs to be there since that's our only other method. Um, we've had emergency vehicles up there before, uh, when issues have happened. So I just wanted to point that out as well. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, and Nikki, Nikki. Hi there. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Um, yes, I'm, I'm Nicole Goodwin. I'm at one Turkey Hill Road. I, um, you know, I won't, I echo a lot of the concerns, the community shares, and, and I also respect, um, the church wanting to, to renovate their sacred space. I, my biggest concern, um, I guess, selfishly is I'm the, probably the closest property that abuts on the, I guess it would be the, that the east side, right on the back. And I guess I, to, to echo our, our attorney, I just would love to, um, be able to negotiate, uh, a stronger buffer zone of old growth trees, especially on the posterior of my property. I'm on the standalone condo that literally looks like there's really not going to be many trees left behind. Um, you know, and, and, and also to obviously to the north, which kind of shades the, uh, what people can see from the other communities, but I directly will be affected and, and hoping that can be negotiated to be a, a thicker buffer zone of, of old growth trees. That would be greatly appreciated. Um, thank you. Uh, with regard to that, um, that's something that your, your attorney would have to, uh, work with their attorney on. It's not something that the, in, in the particulars that you're talking about. Um, it would be great if you worked it out and we will deal with it as well as we can. Um, I think right now we need to talk about scheduling. So Robert, um, yes, do we have all of our peer review consultants under contract? We do not. What do we have and what don't we have? We have, uh, DDT doing this civil engineering and, and I did talk to him today actually. And he said he's going to, his goal is to have his, his review done by next Wednesday or by next, by next Thursday at the latest traffic engineer. We had someone chosen, but we have not received a check, uh, from, from the church. So we have not started that yet before we can get that started. So I already requested them to send us to bring in a check in so we can get that started as soon as possible. Okay. Um, our next planning board meeting is scheduled for October the 29th. Yeah, we do have the large meeting room booked from five to 10 o'clock. Okay. Not the, not the COA. It's already booked the COA. Okay. Large meeting room booked if you need it. Okay. So for the next meeting, we're going to do an in-person and, um, via zoom. The public had requested that and that's fine with us. Um, so, uh, if we get the DGT stuff, what's the outside date that he, the date that he was doing? 22nd, 23rd. 22nd, 23rd. So if we got something over to the project team on the 22nd or 23rd, um, would you be able to turn it around so that we could have a meeting on October the 29th? Uh, I, I would answer that by saying we can discuss it with the team here and then let Robert know, um, we have to schedule the meeting, um, tonight. We can't, we don't have that kind of leeway. So, Madam Chair, if I might, I would suggest, uh, continuing it to your next meeting. And if we're unable to receive and respond to the peer review, uh, to have enough new to discuss, then we can always ask for continuance. Yes. The issue becomes, we have about three other large matters and we're trying to stagger them so that we don't have you all on the same night if we can. Um, and so, um, the next meeting after that, we're having a forum on November the 12th, um, but we could fit it in as well. Um, we might, we could, we could, we could, we do have it booked with the COA booked, uh, between five and seven on November 12th, uh, before the, before the public forum. We could just, just in case, just in case the board want to meet at six o'clock. And what time is, okay. Um, again, it's up to you, um, Mr. Silverstein, but we don't have, we have so much, uh, on our plate that we can't just, um, for go ahead. I understand. Um, obviously this is, this is probably more Sean Malone question, I suspect. Um, but if we don't get peer review comments until the 23rd or 24th to be able to turn around a meaningful response and have it to you in sufficient time for board members to look at it. I'm just, I don't want to, I don't want to pressure you. That's why. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. So, um, would you prefer to do it on November the 12th? Yeah. I think that's probably safer. Okay. So Robert, what time is the forum on the 12th? At seven o'clock. Seven. Is that correct, Robin? Seven o'clock? I can't hit Robin. You're sorry. I believe so, but it's whatever the agenda calls for it. So it might be seven, 10, seven, 15, whatever. Yeah. Um, would you guys be available and the board, first of all, would the board be available? Um, and it would probably, if we might have to be a little earlier than six, but would you be available at six or a little earlier if we had to do it? Jesse, Larry. Sorry, what day is that, please? The 12th. Fortunately, I'll be out of town. Yeah. Sorry. Um, I, I would, I would be open myself. Larry? Yep. March for me. Okay. And Jesse, you can watch the tape. Yeah, that's fine. And if you have questions, you can give them to Robert ahead of time. Sure. Um, just want to check on something, November the 12th. Um, so, um, for those of you who are available, could you start at 5 30, do you think or not? Yeah, that's okay. If that's too tight, let me know. Robin, is that okay for you or not? You're mute. It wasn't unmuting when I hit the space bar. Uh, that should be fine. Okay. And Robert? Yeah. You'd be okay. Okay. So why don't we schedule it for 5 30 on Wednesday, the 12th? Uh, hybrid, hybrid, correct? Uh, no, in person. Oh, you said we could do it in person. Oh, hybrid. Sorry. Yes. Be the public person. Yes. In person and zoom. Got it. Yeah. The, the, the, the power for me is also in hybrid too. So, okay. What, um, what's to dictate which way I, as an individual should go, you should be in the, in the audience and with us in person. Well, thanks. The board should be there in person. Um, the, um, we need, uh, an extension of time. And I guess the question for you, Mr. Silverstein is, um, we need to be able to get the peer reviewer for traffic and we need to do that immediately. Um, and we don't want to hold you up and we want to make sure that we move through this in an expeditious process, but, um, I think we're going to need more than one more hearing and then we'll need time to write the decision. I suspect so. Um, I, I don't think, uh, any extensions are, are going to be issues. Um, and Maked, um, can you get the check-in for the traffic peer review? Yes. Yes. I apologize. It was supposed to be in, but I think somebody forgot it at home. So we're able to bring it in. So if he, if he, if he's going to get it this week, then I'll, then I'll get, I'll ask them. You'll get that tomorrow, Robert. I apologize for that. Okay. Uh, so our deadline right now is, let me pull it up. Let me just make sure I pull the right one up. Our deadline right now is October 26th. That was 60 days from October, from August 27th. So, um, it will leave up the board. So I'll, I'll, um, unless you have a form, Robert, that you prefer I use, I can just send you written confirmation. Um, and for now, um, 45 days, 45 days, um, extension of that deadline. And if another extension is necessary, which very well might be, that's not going to be an issue. Yeah. Just send me an email, uh, and then we'll use that as a documentation as the, as the request. So 45 days from, uh, what was it? October 26th. That makes it easiest. I'll get that to you right now. Yeah. I think we'll all the, besides that, if there's anything else to discuss, I think we just need a motion to continue to physically continue the hearing. Okay. But Robert, do you have any questions? Uh, not right now. I don't want to hold back because we're in a public hearing. Okay. Um, I, I think that we do need something about the senior housing, uh, because the information that we received tonight was different than, than I understood. And if the housing is being provided to the public, that changes a lot in my head of what, what could be allowed or what would not be allowed under Dover. So, I would like more clarification from my side of what, how this would affect. And then be. Yeah. I'll, I'll provide a memo as requested by the chair, um, well, in advance of the next hearing session. And Robert, um, I think you said that there were some trees that were in the right of way that they were planning on removing. I, I saw some, I saw a few trees. Yeah. I thought I saw them too. And that would require a, a scenic road hearing automatically. Right. Um, just clarification. Because it's not your property. Yes. And that's, this is a scenic road. Um, so I think that there's just some things I can, we can, we can flush out later. Um, also, yeah, I think I might be, oh, you also interested in buffering. I think some more extra buffering would be, would be helpful around the back of the property where you're, you're closer to the residential properties. So it's not much, not much right now is might be, might be helpful. And the questions that you had that you posed to us, Robert, have you shared that with the applicant? Uh, the memo? Yes. I would have to go back and see if I, if I did. I thought I did. And if you, and if you didn't just pick out the questions that you've got and send it to them so that they'll have something to work. I believe I sent them the, all the staff comments and public comments of like last week. Okay. I will send the file comments that came in today, but they weren't like, uh, majorly concerning. Okay. Great. Thank you very much, everyone. Um, so, um, I'd like to make a motion, uh, to, to, uh,
what am I, what's the word, Robert? To continue the hearing. Thank you. To continue the hearing, uh, for the Coptic Church, uh, PB, uh, Oh, 2502, uh, 69 Rice, 169 Rice Road until, um, November the 12th, uh, at 530 PM, uh, hybrid and, uh,
So moved. Thank you. Uh, all in favor? I'll second it. Robin seconded it. Oh, oh, she moved. Sorry. You seconded it. Sorry. Uh, all in favor, Robin. Yes. Ira. Yes. Larry. Yes. Jesse. Yes. Annette. Yes. Um, Magoo, do you have a question? Yeah, so I, there was, uh, there was a request to do an on-site meeting. Um, and. Oh, yes. Right. I want to just remind Robert about that, uh, because he was trying to do the scheduling for it. So, um, wanted to remind him of that action item. Okay. Robert, you can deal with us later then? Uh, yes. Well, I will, I will get back to the end. I have all the, I have all the comments from, all the numbers from the, uh, uh, availability. But I will get, I will reach out to him tomorrow and, and get a time for them for next week or week after. Okay. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. We are now moving on to, and we're a little late, but it's okay. Uh, planning board number 2503, 3745 Waltham Road, the Carroll School site plan approval public hearing. Um, I will open the hearing this evening and Robert, can you bring the people who are? Yes. And one is that, is that also Sean Marlon, he's doing both projects. So he's also here. Robert, I'm having a hard time understanding. I said, I said, Sean Marlon is also the engineer for this part of two. So he's going to be sticking around.
Um, yes, I'm just waiting for the, for the hands second. Okay. Um, hi, Robert. Madam chair, may I just help Robert identify the people? I'm not sure. They're all raising. What was raising their hand? Okay. Thank you. Sorry. Yep. I'm using that.
This is Carrie DeLeo. I'm the owner's project manager. Am I, um, able to share, I have permission, but is it okay if I share screen for a presentation? Yeah. Yes. But I just like to set up the hearing if you don't mind so that everyone understands tonight. This project is, uh, for an expansion of the Carroll school and, um, um, the procedure that we're going to follow this evening is that the applicant will make a presentation. Uh, and, uh, do an overview of the project. Uh, then the board will ask questions. Then we'll open it up for the public, uh, to ask questions. Uh, and then we'll work on scheduling at the end. Um, and just as I did with the last project, I'm going to do it with this project as well. I want to read the requirements of the Dover amendment so that everybody understands what kind of jurisdiction the board has and doesn't have.
Um, Massachusetts general law chapter 48 section three, uh, is the zoning, uh, statute. And, uh, it deals with subjects that zoning may not regulate. Paragraph two of that is known as the Dover amendment, because there was a case that occasioned the passing of this law. And it reads no impertinent part, no zoning ordinance or bylaw shall prohibit, regulate, or restrict the use of land or structures for religious purposes or for educational purposes on land owned or leased by a religious sect or denomination or by a nonprofit educational corporation. Provided, however, that such land or structures may be subject to reasonable regulations concerning the bulk and height of structures and determining yard sizes, lot area, setbacks, open space, parking, and building coverage requirements. Wayland also has its own bylaw to implement the state statute. And it is, uh, 198 dash 601 and six, it sequence, it seek and, uh, 606.3 of that bylaw says when reviewing and acting on a site plan application for the principal use of land or a building or structure for daycare, educational, nursery school, or religious uses that are exempt from regulation under Massachusetts general law, chapter 48, section three, the planning board shall apply reasonable regulations concerning the bulk and height of structures and determining yard sizes, lot area, setbacks, open space, parking, and building coverage requirements as set forth in this zoning bylaw. Except to the extent that the applicant shows that the regulation is unreasonable and unrelated to a legitimate municipal concern and will substantially detract or diminish the applicant's ability to conduct the exempt use. So, uh, so, uh, is it, uh, Ms. DeLeo? Yes. Who's going to do the presentation this evening? Yes. Okay. It's all yours. Wonderful. I'm going to, uh, share my screen. Um, and actually, uh, a better part of the team is going to do most of the speaking. So, uh, can everyone see that? Yes. Okay. Great. So, uh, Chris, uh, I assume you have been let in as well. Yes, I have. And I'm here great. So we will start with you. Okay. All right. Progress. Well, first let me. You're right, Carrie. Yep. Just trying to get the presentation to progress. I'll get there though. Yep. Okay. All right. Well, first, thank you everybody, uh, for the opportunity to present this evening. Uh, I just want to really quickly give you a brief overview of Carol. Um, but before I begin, I just want to note that, uh, Renee Greenfield, the head of school, is also on the call this evening. So two representatives from the school, uh, we're an independent day school. Uh, we're over 50 years old, uh, serving students in K through nine, uh, primarily with dyslexia or other language-based learning differences. We have roughly 450 students spread across three different campuses in Waltham, Lincoln, and Wayland. Wayland, we, uh, uh, started operations in 2016. So this is our newest campus. Uh, we're in the midst of doing long-term planning, uh, with the board to determine how can we support, uh, serving more students with dyslexia, uh, and to give more students, uh, really what they need at this critical, critical time in their development.
Uh, next, I'd like to introduce, uh, briefly the members of the team who are on the call.
So starting with Carrie DeLeo from Scalora, uh, who's advising us in the overarching, uh, objectives of the project. We have Flansburg, uh, Dahi Blair, who will be presenting the, uh, the architectural components. Fuss and O'Neill. We have Ken Cram, who will talk about the, uh, traffic study. Uh, Bill Proya from Reamer-Bronstein, who's advising us from a legal perspective. We have, uh, Sean Malone from Oak Consulting and Mish Crowley from Crowley Cottrell. And at this point, I think, uh, turn it over to Bill.
Thank you, Chris. I'm Madam Chair, members of the board. For the record, I'm Bill Proya, um, counsel for Carroll School this evening. Uh, so just quickly, the current campus, uh, is located at 37, 39, and 45 Waltham Road. It's about a 16-acre site and currently improved with three buildings. Uh, 25,000 square foot, uh, classroom and administration space. So 1,800 square foot administrative building and, uh, small garage, about 800 square feet. That's currently being used by the facilities department. Uh, the proposal, uh, here would be to retain the 25,000 square foot classroom and administration space. Uh, it's commonly known as the Fish Center. It was the original residence on the property. The other small, two smaller buildings will be removed and replaced by, uh, an academic building and classroom space and admin, uh, athletic space that you'll hear more about in a couple minutes. Uh, thank you, Madam Chair, for going through the zoning structure on this. I will not belabor it. I will just say that when the Carroll School began operating in 2016, it did undergo a similar site plan review. At that time, it was administered by the building inspector, I believe, but there was a hearing in front of the planning board as well. At that point, Carroll, uh, agreed to do that. And, uh, I think it was very productive and useful at the time. So it's the same scope of review as you identified. And the last thing I'd point out about the project is that it is designed to comply with all the applicable dimensional requirements under the zoning bylaw. And again, we can get into more of that detail as we go along. And lastly, I just want to acknowledge for everyone, the board and the members of the public that might be listening, the department's staff that, you know, we have received a fair number of letters and comments from departments as well as the neighbors. And, uh, we do appreciate the input we are expecting. We'll have, you know, additional comments, especially from the peer review engineer that has been engaged. And just regarding that, I just want to assure everyone that, you know, we take all the comments very seriously and all the perspectives very seriously and respectfully. And we fully intend to, you know, provide thorough answers to those things. Some questions may be answered tonight during the presentation. Others won't, but we will, you know, vow to follow up on those as thoroughly as we possibly can. And, you know, we consider this a dialogue. It's, you know, with the board, with the neighborhood, with the communities that are involved and that have, you know, taken the time to submit comments and observations about the project. So I just want everyone to know that we're looking at it from that point of view. And we want to hold that, you know, relationship and openness throughout the process. So I thank you for that. And I'm going to hand it off to Dahi Blair from Flansburg to provide some more detail on the site. Sure. So hello, everybody. Good evening. And thank you for supporting us this time tonight, both to the planning board and to the public who are listening. My name is Dahi Blair. I'm the project architect from Flansburg Architects who is responsible for the design of the proposed building here at the Wayland campus. And I'd like to spend just a moment now to kind of look over the existing site to kind of orient everyone as we kind of go further into the process of what we're proposing. On the slide you're seeing now under the existing conditions title, you're seeing a portion of the Wayland campus. As Bill noted in his previous slide, the overall Wayland campus is about 16 acres of space. But for the sake of clarity in the review tonight, we've really cropped the area of the site just down to the area where we're planning the interventions so that you can see in more detail. But just to know that the actual property extends page south. The site is oriented north is up. So the site extends to the south and to the east beyond the crop that's shown in this image. The northern boundary of the site is bounded by Waltham Road which runs kind of east to west across the top of the property there. You can see that it's along that edge is fairly heavily vegetated to provide some visual buffer between Waltham Road and the Wayland campus. And then there's an entry onto the campus kind of dead center to the north where you see the bend in Waltham Road. That's the existing path onto the campus that then connects to the existing parking lot space in front of the building. I think currently there's about 45 parking spots afforded to the school. To the west, where you see kind of a little circular roundabout, that's the existing Fish Center. The existing Fish Center is a residential building that was reconfigured and repurposed into an academic building by Carroll to educate their current enrollment of approximately 50 students in this building. And like they said, like Chris had said, they've been here for about 10 years, that was about 10 years ago when that was done. I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you just said at the end. I'm sorry. Um, the, the Fish Center, uh, currently it was repurposed from Brazil. And then I heard it was your last phrase, uh, was that, um, the, the school has been using the building in this capacity for about a decade. Thank you. Like this, uh, towards the center of the, of the screen, you can see a smaller box building. I think that's the existing pool house. Um, it's approximately 17, 1700 square feet, uh, that is currently used by Carroll, um, for administration, straight of offices, uh, that is slated to be demolished as part of this proposed new building. Um, and then further to the west, you can see another small box building at 37 Waltham Road. That is an existing two-story barn that is used, um, both for the facilities and the, and the maintenance at the school. Um, so, uh, sorry, Carrie, can you, do you mind skipping? I know that you were having a little bit of a hard time moving back and forth in the images, but can you skip ahead to the floor plans so I can start there and then work my way back to the massing? If you could sit closer to the microphone, it might help your, um, The sound poor. I'm sorry if the sound is poor. I can kind of hunch forward. Is this better? Yes. Okay. I'll, I'll sit like this, move a bit more intimate. Um, so, uh, here you're seeing the, the floor plans of the proposed. Development, uh, on the top is the ground floor, the first floor, and then below is the upper level. Um, you know, the, the plans that we've developed here, um, the plans of the massings were developed in close collaboration with the Carroll school. To me, um, a very specific set of learning needs for the Carroll students and to align with the school's pedagogy around, around learning. Um, so we spent a long time kind of developing these floor plans to find the right fit for their school. Um, what we're showing is, um, what we call basically a series of houses. So while the new proposed building is one building, we're showing it kind of separated into kind of separate pieces, uh, separate houses that are each assigned a different academic subject. So you can see, uh, to the far west of the floor plan is a, um, athletics and arts building. Uh, in the center, there is a humanities building that would house the English and history classrooms of, of the Carroll campus. And then, uh, uh, the eastern most new proposed building is a science building that also includes a number of the tutoring rooms that they use for, for a smaller one-on-one or two-on-one or three-on-one learning at the school. Um, with the anticipation that the existing fish center, uh, the classrooms in that space would be, um, reconfigured to be, uh, primarily mathematics and tutoring in that building. So it would essentially have arts, athletics, humanities, science, and math as kind of four nodes along a string that could have all the different, uh, academics within them. Um, um, the, each one of these new buildings is kind of centralized around kind of a main atrium space, um, to provide, uh, and all the classrooms around that so that there could be calm and contained classrooms and focused tutoring room settings arranged around these small central atriums, um, to strike a balance between, uh, uh, the sense of community and the ability to have accountability and monitoring of students in different spaces while also, uh, minimizing the distractions from the learning environment. Um, if you, uh, if you look to the left, I just want to note while we're on this page that the arts and athletics building, um, does have a section, uh, dedicated to dining, uh, for the students. But I just want to note that that dining is, um, bring your own lunch style dining where the students bring their own lunches from home to the, to the site to eat at the school. So while there is a place to eat at the school, there's no plan for any sort of commercialized kitchen or large scale, uh, cooking on site. Uh, rather there's just a small area dedicated for microwaves and a sink to wash up your, your, your lunch boxes, uh, between, you know, before and after, before and after eating. Um, mechanically, um, mechanically there is a basement proposed between the humanities and science pods to provide both, uh, the connections for the plumbing utilities, as well as the energy recovery unit units that would condition those two pods, uh, that happen underground. And then over in the arts and athletics building up on the second level or the mezzanine of the gymnasium level, there is a plan for, uh, the electric room and a mechanical room that would serve that pod. Um, separate to that exterior to that, we have a mechanical pen designated for, uh, the, um, conditioning units required to cool the space that would be enclosed with a cladding material similar to that of the rest of the building, um, that would house, house both that additional outdoor mechanical equipment, as well as the electrical transformer, uh, and, uh, space to, um, enclose trash recycling, um, and the like. Um, and so Carrie, can we go now skip back to the, to the mass things. I can talk a little bit about that. So, um, yeah, thank you. So from the exterior, that approach of kind of assigning smaller atrium spaces to each of the different academic spaces results in a new, a single new building that has three distinct masses that are connected by transparent glass corridors. Um, to kind of break up the massing of the building as a whole. Um, we found that providing, uh, two story building affords the best balance between the overall building footprint and the building height. Um, and we've utilized a flat roof structure to further minimize the overall building height well below the 35 foot zoning requirements. Um, at the front, the project is set back to roughly align with the existing setback. Um, that was provided by the existing fish center, uh, which is in, you know, oh, well, it's over a hundred feet, 140 feet or more, uh, which is well above, uh, the required. 35 or 55 foot setback assigned by the zoning requirements. And also note that on the western portion of the building where the gymnasium is, we have approximately about 110 feet. of setback of setback there, which is beyond the 30 foot setback that's required between for the side yards. Um, that that's the, the, um, the massing in a nutshell. I think from here, we can get kind of boring to the conversations about the site planning. Um, so I'll pass this on to, um, Michelle Crowley. Crowley. Okay. Thank you. Um, hi everyone. Um, I'm Michelle Crowley from Crowley Cottrell, uh, Landscape Architects. Um, and excited to be here tonight to share these drawings. Um, so as dahi just said, uh, you know, this, the new school is designed to extend learning opportunities from the existing fish center. Uh, creating a cohesive connected campus. Students will move between the two buildings and the landscape throughout the day to encourage indoor and outdoor learning. Uh, to walk through the plan. We'll start up in the northwest side where we have expanded the parking lot to accommodate the larger school population. We're using large rain gardens to manage stormwater, which will also serve as a nice landscape feature for the campus. Sean will talk more about the drainage strategy in a few minutes. As we move south, uh, from the parking area, you'll see the main school entry with, uh, pergolas defining the pickup and drop off areas along the sidewalk. Can you point to those or can you not? Um, yeah, Carrie, can you? Are you able to see my, my cursor? Okay. Yeah, I can, I can drive those. So the parking lot expansion, um, can you show where the existing parking is Carrie? So that's the existing parking. Um, and then we've expanded, uh, to the west there. And then as you come around is where the front door is. And just beyond that are sort of pergolas that are where the sort of drop off and pickup zones are, um, moving to the south of the building. Um, when you say pergola, what is that? Oh, uh, just a covered area for like shape structures to, um, in the front there. Thank you. Yep. Um, so at the back of the building, we have, uh, several outdoor spaces that we want to highlight. Um, the terrace right outside the lunchroom includes picnic tables and planters with seat walls where students and staff can gather during lunch and recess. We also have two half courts that can be used for pickup basketball and other play, but the space is flexible. It can also function as an outdoor classroom or performance area with then also direct access to the existing soccer fields. Um, to the right, there's an, what we're calling an academic terrace. Um, and that's for more outdoor learning for both the sciences and the humanities. That's also then, uh, closest to, uh, the fish center. Um, the existing soccer fields to the south will stay as they are. Um, we are adding a reinforced lawn fire lane behind the fish center to improve, uh, emergency access. Um, that's a quick overview of the site plan. Um, I'm gonna move to the next slide to talk about vehicular circulation. So emergency, this is showing emergency vehicles will be able to enter, uh, from the west side or from the main entrance. They can then circulate through the site and travel behind the fish center and exit at the eastern most, uh, driveway. This setup gives clear direct access across the campus for any emergency response. Next slide. So, uh, staff and students and visitors will enter from the main driveway, circulate through the site and exit again at the east drive. We'll take a closer look at an arrival and dismissal in a few slides, but here's a quick overview of parking. Um, we're gonna be providing a total of 118 parking spaces. That includes five accessible spots, 15 short-term visitor spaces, and 10 overflow spaces. Uh, zoning requires 96 spaces. That's 80 for staff plus 5% of total occupancy. So we're comfortably exceeding, uh, what's required. Next slide. Um, no, one more, uh, you jumped too much. Yeah, this looks like the emergency, but this is actually the bus. Um, we've got two separate bus drop offs and pickup areas. The west, uh, bus stop will use be primarily used for, um, like events and team sports. Visiting team sports will drop off there. Um, so buses will enter from the west, circulate through the site, and then exit through the east driveway. Um, the east bus stop is dedicated to the Carroll school buses. Those will enter from the main driveway, circulate through a bus only connector, so they don't have to drive through the parking area and park in their designated area there in front of the fish center. And then they will exit at the east driveway. This setup, uh, separates school bus traffic from parent pickup and drop off, keeping things organized, uh, and safe. Next slide. Next slide. The overall circulation plan is modeled after what's worked well at the Carroll school's Lincoln campus. We studied both daily pickup and drop off as well as larger events to make sure traffic moves efficiently. Student arrivals tend to happen quickly since drop off is staggered over a short window. Uh, dismissal varies a bit more about 35% of students roughly 85. Take the bus about half around 125 will stay for after school programs. So on a typical day, dismissal involves around 125 students, about 40 of those will go by bus and 85 by carpool as well. So this image shows how many cars. Can queue on the site during dismissal. We can hold up to 110 cars, 18 of which are actively picking up at any given time. Cars are released in batches for safety and to keep traffic moving. And staff is stationed in a variety of areas to call the students. Um, and so that they will be ready to get into the cars and then all, uh, 18 cars. Then move out and the next, uh, move in. So it's really moving quickly. So, um, there are roughly 20 days a year when we have a full school dismissal. The image here is static. It shows a capacity of 110, but it doesn't account for how quickly the turnover is, which actually really improves the flow on those busier days. We have a few built in release valves. We can use the west bus loop since there won't be team sports happening those days. That adds space for about 24 additional cars. We can open overflow parking bays, each holding about 20 more cars. And we can also use the fish center loop and stagger dismissal times, uh, if needed. Next slide. So this is the lighting diagram. Um, we've designed the site lighting to balance safety with sensitivity to the surrounding neighborhood. The lighting levels are intentionally lower than a typical parking lot, but evenly distributed to eliminate bright spots and dark areas. All fixtures are dark sky compliant. All fixtures are dark sky compliant. The lumens will be set for comfortable lighting that doesn't spill beyond, uh, the property. Pedestrian lighting in the back is a lower, softer level, and that all the lighting zones are grouped and timed separately. So parking areas will be on one schedule and the rear areas on another. So lights are only on when needed. Next slide. Next slide. So back to the site plan. I just wanted to touch on planting. We're maintaining the existing hedgerows, trees, large shrubs along the perimeter for continued screening. We're also protecting several large trees on the south side of the new building. So the school will immediately benefit from mature shade trees that help scale the building to the site. We're meeting the tree ordinance by replacing the required caliper of trees, replanting nearly 30 new trees, over 400 shrubs and thousands of ground covers and perennials throughout the site and rain gardens. Altogether, it creates a diverse layered planting plan that supports both sustainability and visual interest across the campus. I'm going to now turn this over to Sean, who will walk through the site engineering. Thank you. Good evening, everyone. My name is Sean Malone with Oak Consulting Group. I am the civil engineer for the project. Um, so with respect to drainage and, uh, septic, I'll start with drainage. Um, we did approximately or actually eight deep test pits on this site. Uh, this summer, they went, uh, to about 10 to 12 feet deep. We consistently found very coarse sands, uh, at that sub subsoil layer with, uh, groundwater around 10 feet deep. And this all, this groundwater elevation corresponds to the elevation of a, uh, wetland system that's located on the, uh, abutting property just to the west of the site. Um, so we've designed a, uh, a stormwater system to mitigate the increases and runoff due to, um, additional impervious area on the site. With this site design, we are increasing the impervious area by about, uh, one acre. Um, so we need to find a place to put that stormwater. And with these soils, uh, one of the best options that we have and that we, we found and executed on this site is to infiltrate it back into the ground. So as Misha mentioned at the beginning of our presentation, we do have a, a large surface infiltration bio basin at the center of the site. We also have two subsurface, um, pipe retention systems. This will consist of, uh, large diameter HDPE pipe, uh, that's perforated that will hold the stormwater and infiltrate it back into the ground. Um, the net effect of this design is a decrease in the rate and volume of runoff from the site. Uh, with respect to the septic system, um, this site will, uh, have an increase in the, uh, student staff, students and staff, uh, uh, and will require a new septic system to meet that, that, uh, sewer, sewer load. So we've designed a new Presby system that'll be located at the, the rear of the building as Carrie was just circulating there. Um, this would be in a grassed area in between the, the field and the grass patio behind the existing fish center. Um, and this has been sized to, uh, be able to accommodate the, the, the maximum experience. The maximum expected build out at this site of, uh, 330 persons. Um, this area of whaling is actually served by Lincoln water. Uh, we have reached out to the Lincoln water department, um, and shown them this plan in what our proposed, um, water services. And, uh, they had no issues with the plan as, uh, our plans evolve into construction documents. We'll consider or continue coordination, um, with them on that. Um, that pretty much sums up what, uh, the bulk of the site design is. Uh, I think we'd like to ask Ken to talk a little bit about his, uh, traffic study. Good evening, Ken Cram, Fuston O'Neill. Uh, we prepared the, uh, traffic, uh, study for the project. We also were involved with the traffic study, uh, for the original build, uh, a number of years back. We followed math DOT guidelines, which is a standard, pretty much requirement across the board. Uh, we did our traffic, uh, counts, new counts when schools were in session. Uh, we looked at the entire area, uh, from, uh, South Great Road, Route 117, all the way over to Concord Road, Route 126. Uh, we did some traffic projections. We compared it to what the Institute of Transportation Engineers had in their trip generation manual. And we also did a rather extensive observations at the current campus, uh, in, um, neighboring Lincoln, which is, uh, operations are, are projected to be very similar in terms of pick up and drop off activity. So we had some really good solid data, uh, to generate our trips. Uh, overall, the project is not expected to have really a big impact. Um, the most of the traffic that's going to be generated by the school is going to occur when, during the morning peak hour, when people are dropping off their students or buses are coming in. Um, and then, uh, there's actually going to be the school peak, um, is actually, uh, earlier than the, uh, commuter peak hour. But we analyzed the worst, uh, assuming the two of them were the same. Um, we always looked at, uh, safety. Uh, we've got good sight lines at the site driveways. Um, and I just want to point out, uh, we have three driveways now, but the westernmost driveway is going to be for buses and emergency vehicles only. Um, as Michelle indicated, um, all the traffic, uh, for pick up and drop off, uh, for the students, will be through the central driveway. Um, one of the concerns that was identified several years ago, um, and, uh, the school put policies in place that, um, the staff and students would drive or directed not to use, uh, some of the local streets and rent to park on them. Uh, next slide, please. Um, basically, we're holding the, uh, the, uh, west site driveway will be wide enough to accommodate, uh, bus and emergency vehicles be 16 feet. Uh, the central driveway will also be 20 feet wide to accommodate, uh, turning into an out into because it's not, there's no one going out. But because we're going to have, uh, our design is to, uh, be able to accommodate, uh, a tandem uh, tandem, uh, tandem parking, well, tandem parking, tandem, uh, vehicle flow, uh, through this site. And the east driveway is going to remain as it is about 16 feet in width. Uh, no changes are proposed. Uh, all the, the, uh, proposed, uh, say, uh, uh, pavement markings and signage, um, that are regulatory in nature will be MUTCD compliant. Um, and, uh, all the, uh, internally, the, all the pedestrian ramps will be ADA compliant. Um, and, uh, one thing, uh, the existing school sign will be relocated to the new main entrance. Um, but, uh, we've made the recommendation that it be set back so it doesn't, uh, impede sightlines. And again, lastly, uh, during wintertime conditions, uh, snow windrows, which are those piles of snow that snow plows create, um, uh, they will be, uh, uh, not allowed to happen. If, if it does build up, they will have to be removed, um, so that the, those snow, uh, windrows do not, uh, impede the sightlines. Um, and I believe that's, uh, all I have. I'll be happy to answer questions later. Thanks, Ken. Um, Carrie DeLeo, school or consulting group, we're the owner's project manager for the, uh, for the project. Uh, I was also involved with the school, uh, during the previous phase, as with some of the others on, on the team, uh, just wanted to give you all, uh, or the broader community, just a static, um, update of where we stand right now. We have, um, you know, the, the neighbors across the street from the site are actually Lincoln, uh, residents, uh, the town line goes right down Wilhelm road. So we are, uh, presenting on Monday evening to, uh, the select, the select board, um, which was a request to them. Uh, Sean mentioned the board of the septic system that has been submitted to board of health with all the calculations that go with that. Um, additionally, as Bill mentioned, you know, currently this site is three parcels, 37 to 45. Uh, we have submitted, and I believe may even be on the agenda for this evening, uh, an ANR to combine this into just one parcel, just, um, for ease, uh, long term. And we also, uh, late last month, we opened our hearing with conservation. Uh, and, and under conservation's jurisdiction, we have applied for, uh, chapter 193, chapter 194 and an RDA, um, given the, uh, work adjacent to the wetland along the west side of the site that we mentioned. Um, and then, you know, as, as also mentioned, this project has gone out for peer review. Uh, we are, we have not received the peer review comments back yet, um, but we will, um, plan to come back to, like Bill mentioned, with all response to all the comments we've received, both through peer review, but also, uh, neighbor concerns and then any, uh, comments or questions that come up from town departments, uh, or you all this evening. So that is all we have. Um, I can actually stop sharing so that you can see folks' faces and reshare if needed. Can you send a copy of the slide presentation to Robert for the file? Yep. I have her. Thank you. Yep. And, uh, Robert, we'll just make sure you had, have the updated one. When we looked at it, um, just, you know, a couple of days ago, um, like slides like this one may not have been in there, but, you know, we will make sure you have the current, current. Thank you. Um, questions from the board who would like to lead off? Robin? Yes. Um, one comment I have in terms of the plans. Um, so these plans aren't showing the whole site. Like we're not seeing that area where the soccer fields are. They're always cut off. I think for some of the plans, it might be helpful for us to see the whole lot, the whole project. So we can see kind of what, what percentage of the space you're building on and what you're not and see it more holistically. Um, most of my concerns, cause I think the presentation was excellent, but most of my concerns revolve around parking and traffic. Um, having spent a significant amount of my life commuting through that area. Um, Waltham Road, trying to get out onto Concord Road to get into Wayland. There are nights it's backed up all the way to Lincoln Road and people do crazy things. I myself have driven south on Lincoln Road, which is death defying in and of itself. Um, but I, having heard from some of the abutters already with letters, I'm, I have some significant concerns about the traffic flow, um, and how people will try and get around the increased traffic from this. You know, you're, you're looking to make a five fold increase in your student population. So I have some concerns about how that's gonna impact traffic. I did not see the traffic study address at all the intersection of Lincoln Road and 117. Um, and so I think that would be something to be looking at. Um, and you know, people heading out to 117. Otherwise, if they're gonna go on Waltham Road or Old Sudbury Road, it turns into to go out to 117 the other way, going by what everybody calls Ponyhenge. Um, uh, that's sort of an, it's a dangerous section of the road and to increase the traffic there by any amount over what you've already increased, it seems questionable. Um, and with traffic, uh, comes parking. And I'm not clear what the plan is for having functions. If you have 250 students and you have an all school function, um, there doesn't appear to be room for all those cars to be on site. And unless you're going to park them on your soccer fields. Um, but none of the streets that are around the school have any room for cars to park on the street. There's no room for on street parking at all. Um, so I, you know, I'd want to know what that is without bothering some of the budding neighbors by having people driving down sort of what is just an access road. But, um, I was curious how many of your students currently, so you have almost 50 students, what percentage of them come in by bus? Um, and what percentage of them are coming in by family car? Um, cause I would imagine one of the things that's different about the Carroll school is that most of your students are not coming to school with a, with siblings. Um, most of your students, it's the only child from a family who's coming. So each car, other than a carpool, each car is bringing one student and then picking up one student at the end of the day. Um, and in terms of the drop off and pick up, having done a lot of drop off and pick ups up. Um, it, it, that looks like a very small area for allowing for the line to form. Uh, and what's the school's plan for if traffic does back up out onto Waltham Road? Will you have a staff person who's responsible for standing out on Waltham Road and monitoring that and getting those cows out of there, even if they have to drive around and come back later? Um, you know, what is the plan there? Um, those are my big issues. The rest of the stuff we'll have to get to later on with the Board of Health and CONCOM and everybody weighing in, so. Um, yeah, thank you. Uh, good presentation. Um, you may have covered this, but what is the volume of, uh, cars going down Waltham Road on a typical weekday? It was in the traffic study, Larry. Yeah. I can cram again for us, no Neil. Uh, when we need our accounts, uh, just in front of the school, there were total of, uh, just under 2000 vehicles per day. Total both directions. All right. Thank you. Larry, do you have other questions? No. Um, I wanted to get a feel for the percent increase, which is not that high. Yeah. Ira, do you have any questions? No, I'm, I'm listening to the exchanges at this point. And that's, that's. Okay. Jesse. I think I have the same concerns Robin had about traffic on either side on, on, uh, 117 and 126 and how that's not really addressed in the, in the traffic study. Okay. Um, I have a series of questions. Um, when I looked at online at your, um, uh, queuing, I was wondering how people who are parked in this parking lot, skin in and out and who are those people who park there. Do you, yeah. Yeah. Do you want us to answer as we go? We have answers for most of these questions, but it would be easier. It would get out of the way. Yeah. It's up to you. Oh, um, Carol school folks. I mean, I'm happy to. Sure. Let me, I can address that question quickly. So the people who are parked there are faculty and any staff that are located. And they do not leave when, uh, they're there for the entire duration of the day beyond pickup. So we don't, uh, have faculty or staff that leaves before the students. So there would be no movement in and out of those spots during pickup. Okay. If in the morning, not everybody comes in exactly on time. How do they get in and out? Well, again, most of the people are there before eight o'clock at the beginning of school to welcome all the students. So all of the faculty are already there and there would be, there's very limited number of people that come in and actually park during drop-off. Okay. And so the static image of the cars coming around that assumes that cars, because there's an excess amount of parking, then what we expect to have the number of faculty, there's going to be enough spaces that are open for overflow traffic. But all of those spaces would be filled, uh, at the beginning of school day and before the, uh, students leave. And if someone has to get in and out during that time, I mean, some things do happen. Sure. If, if, if somebody needs to leave right at the same time that there's pickup, then they would be sitting in the line waiting to get out. Well, they probably wouldn't be sitting in the line cause they wouldn't be able to get out to get into the line. Yeah. So if you had a student who had a problem at that point in time and needed an emergency vehicle, how would that work? Yeah. So I think what's important to note is, um, this is, uh, a, a manned or woman, um, process right. Similar to what happens currently in Lincoln, that there are faculty and staff in the parking lot, actively managing traffic. So I know that was one of the questions and that's what they do now. If you're familiar with the, the site on Baker bridge, you know, there's no way that's a, even might I say more dangerous road than, than Waltham road. So if they get backed up, they just send cars by and they have to do, you know, they have to just drive by and come back later. Uh, most of those times are because folks are not arriving at the correct, the correct time. Um, so that was one question, uh, same with, if there was an emergency on campus during that process. I don't know, Chris and Renee, if you can weigh in on how the, the actual, uh, dismissal is, is a fairly short amount of moments, right? Yes. It takes the dismissal can take, uh, 20 minutes, 25 minutes total to have everybody out. Uh, there are two entrances. So you have the emergency exit. I think if there was a situation where there was an emergency that we had to call an ambulance to be on campus for a student at the same time that we had the maximum number of cars, we would utilize the center entrance and go over by the bus, uh, uh, the bus pickup and drop off. So there's two ways to get onto campus in a scenario just like that. And again, because there is staff there, if there was someone who needed to get up right where they were actively loading, they'd just send those cars off and have them come back, you know, drive around, drive down, you know, go around, um, however that wants to look, but, um, you can, you should be able to clear that fairly, fairly quickly. Um, and again, that's a very, it's a pretty short amount of time that, that, that, that exists. And, and it is something that they manage, uh, effectively, um, with the existing population in Lincoln. Um, with regard to the pergolas, you don't have to answer this now, but we'd appreciate it in writing. Uh, what's the height of the pergolas? They're covered and, uh, will trucks be able to get underneath them and buses? Um, I understand from comments that we've received. That you have a garage and a maintenance area currently, uh, what's your plan for the future? So there's, um, again, Chris, you feel free to kick me out if I'm overstepping, but yeah, the, the current garage, the, a few years back, the school acquired the, the, uh, property next door to them, which was 37 Waltham road. That was a single family home. They removed that home and are using that garage, but there is another garage on, on site, um, that is down, uh, closer to the fields, um, on that long access and the access road that goes down the east side. And so the intent is to, to have facilities use that garage. Is that garage on apple tree lane? I believe it's part of a parcel that Carroll school owns on apple tree. Is that correct? Chris? Yes, it is back, uh, next to 10 apple tree lane. Uh, we also have the intention since we have two other campuses, uh, any of the, oftentimes we have our vans or other equipment, uh, in Wayland and it's there now because we have the space, but moving forward, we could easily, uh, and we plan on shifting some of that equipment to other campuses as well. So we would no longer be concentrated there. Okay. On the apple tree lane area, that's pretty close to the houses that are there, I believe. Um, and will the access be through that long corridor and not, no access from apple tree lane? Well, we, we'd have to do some really thought around what equipment we have stored in Wayland versus in Lincoln or Waltham. Um, but we would use a mix if it's obviously, if it's a van or a, uh, another vehicle, we'd use the road. But if it's a lawn equipment, then we would, uh, remain on our property. It depends upon what it's used for. So when you're using a, excuse me, Bill, uh, Sterling, could you just, um, black yourself out until we're ready for you? Um, so if you're, if you were moving equipment on site, will you be moving it on internal roads or will you be using exterior roads? I think if we're moving. Yeah. Yeah. The garage is on the apple tree parcel, but the openings of the garage face the fields. That makes sense. Okay. And your access to it would be. From the site. Yeah, exactly. You don't have to go out onto Waltham road. It's okay. Yeah. If you, you know, mowers and things like that can come in and out right from the fields, et cetera. Okay. Yes. They would not be on the roads. I'm just looking through my notes. Um, I believe someone said that you would be reusing the existing sign, but moving it back a little bit from the road. Is that correct? Correct. Yeah. And relocating it to the new, where the new entrance comes in. Okay. Um, in the traffic study, um, it talks about the, I think it's the Western entrance being only emergency, but that's not what was said tonight. That was what Mr. Cram repeated again. But what, uh, Ms. Crowley said was that buses would be coming in there as well. So can you clarify that in your written response exactly what goes where? Yeah. And we can, we can add some clarity around this. I think the intention is that Carroll school transporting buses that are bringing students to and from school. They would come in the main entrance, go through the bus pipe bypass and park at the fish center. I think the, um, the emergency access for buses would just be in a situation where, um, similar to some of the other comments. If they have a visiting team coming for a sports engagement right at the same time, um, as pickup and drop up, it allows for them to give them direction to come right toward, uh, the area where the gymnasium is and offload those students. Okay. Again, it's just. Yeah. We can bring confusion. Yeah. Um, and for large events, what are you planning on doing for parking? So I'm happy to take that one. Hi, everybody. Renee Greenfield, head of school. Um, if folks don't know, I think it's important to know that we have three different campuses on Waltham, in Waltham, in Lincoln, and in Whalen. And we often have all school events where we have to organize and have people park on one site and transport them. And so, um, that would likely have to be a consideration, um, on this campus. Um, and so we have the access to Wayland and Lincoln where we can park folks and shuttle them over for events and then return them to their cars. Um, so we have, um, lots of experience doing that. Um, so that would be an option that we would have to consider, um, for large school events. Okay. Um, in reading through the traffic study, I could be wrong, uh, but I thought that they were doing morning peak and evening peak. Um, and can you tell us for the morning peak, what the hours are that you're looking at? And for the evening peak, what the hours are that you're looking for? And do you want to take it? If you can answer that now, it would be helpful because I have a follow up question. He's getting ready. I can see. 745 to 845 and 430 to 530. 430 to 530. And, uh, what's the school release time? 3 o'clock. Correct. Approximately. Yeah. Did you do any studies looking at the 3 o'clock to 330, 3 o'clock to 4 timeframe? We did do counts at that time, but the counts were higher at the 430 to 530 time. Okay. Well, that's good to know because traffic here in Wayland has increased phenomenally, quite frankly, and starting at 1030 in the morning, uh, with a slight hiatus. A little afternoon, uh, then at 2 30, it's nuts. And then it continues on. So we've noticed real increase in the normal, uh, hours of, of traffic, uh, don't really work anymore. Annette, anecdotally, when we were permitting this site for the first phase, it was right around the advent of, uh, Waze, and it was having a major impact on, uh, Waltham Road at the time. Right. And it still does. It sure does. Yeah. Um. So someone had asked a percentage of students. Um, we have not, uh, Chris, uh, let me know if you've since found out we weren't able to get a really clear identification of the carpool quantity. But, uh, on average, it's about 35% of the kids are getting bust and the older kids, um, that Carol serves, you know, middle schoolers tend to be, uh, you know, largely, you know, that population kit, you know, tends to the younger kids are a lower percentage of bust kids. But overall 35%. Um, this doesn't need to be answered now, but I'd appreciate it in writing, uh, in the traffic report on page 40, uh, under 5.1 recommendations. The last two paragraphs are identical, except that one refers to the 209 manual and uniform control devices. And the other refers to the 2023 one. So if you could clarify which one you're using and, and, or why you've got both of them in there, we'd appreciate that. I had some questions. Well, right now it's the second paragraph. Pardon me? It's the second paragraph. Because the current MUTCD is 2023. Okay. And it looks like what we did was we inadvertently copied the same paragraph twice. Okay. Thank you. Um, sorry. And the plans you have, um, Um, two different items. And I was just wondering where they're located. This is on L 601 paving details. Um, there's, uh, a section six and a section seven. Uh, six deals with, uh, concrete unit pavers. And section seven deals with grass pavers. Pave two spaces. Can you tell us where they're going to be installed? Nish, do you want to take that one? Sure. The, um, the unit pavers, um, are going to be used in, uh, the areas, um, the front entry and the terraces in the back, um, instead of concrete paving, which is the, the rest of the sidewalks. And then the, the grass paver unit is, um, in between, uh, the, the buildings, um, where we need to have, um, wait a second. Sorry. I need to look at the plans. The grass pave is. I'm sorry. Hold on. I have the plans open here. Just needing to see the grass pave is the, the one with the, the fire lane. Yes. I think that's right. The, the, the, yeah. So we have behind on the back of the fish center, we're doing a reinforced, um, lawn, but then we come up near the septic area is then, uh, the, the grass pavers so that you can actually see it's a stabilizer for the fire truck to be able to turn around. Yeah. Do you want me, uh, Carrie, if it's easier to show you on the planet. That would be fine if you want to do that. Yeah. Oh, I just, oh, you guys can't see my screen, but yeah. Um, there you go. Back here. Okay. So, uh, so the pavers, well, actually the pavers are, are the area I can, I can annotate on here. Um, there on either side of this path, if you can see the blue, which is just extending. So that's, that's sort of an existing, that's an existing path right now, an asphalt path, but we would then, uh, flank it so it can be technically wider for the fire truck without widening it. Uh, so it's a, it's a pervious material outside of that. So we don't have to make it a 20 foot wide swath for the walk is still staying. This is just on either end. Yeah. So that said to stabilize the fire. Thank you. Um, in your last approval, uh, you, uh, entered into some conditions voluntarily, um, which I'm assuming carry over. Uh, but I think that, uh, are you willing to do that again? Because I think some of them may need to be added to. Uh, yeah. I mean, of course, I don't have it right in front of me. So I'm not specifically understanding which ones. Um, they're what they're called to site approval. Um, they have, uh, drop off and pick up parking protocols. They had, um, no deliveries before a certain time, no trash removal before a certain time. That would continue anyway. Um, but for, uh, the parking protocol that might need to be updated. So if you would look through that, that there were two documents that were attached. The other one is, well, the actual drop off and pick up the parking protocol. And then give us a chance to look at those again. Okay. That would be great. Accommodate. So thank you. Um, and I think that's probably it. Um, the school zone issue, is that something that you want to implement? Yeah, I can address that. Uh, yes, we would be interested in discussing, uh, how we could implement a school zone. Um, and what exactly that would entail. We don't have a specific, um, recommendation on what it would, but we would be very interested in having that part of the, uh, part of the submission. Okay. Robert, could you check with the DPW to find it would be under the control either of the DPW or the select board, but the DPW has the most experience. All right. I think we'd also need to get mass highway to agree. I'm fairly sure that. On the private way, on a, on a, a town where you have to get mass highway as well. I'm pretty sure if mass highway has jurisdiction, even, um, on local roads. Interesting. But we can definitely explore it and we're, as Chris, as Chris said, we're, we're open to seeing if we can do it or not. And, and if it's not possible, I think, you know, the town of Wayland has implemented a number of other types of, you know, traffic calming. I think, you know, Carol shares the same, the same concerns as the neighbors that, you know, folks do drive quickly. Um, so all in favor of, of slowing that down collectively. Um, that's the roadway stuff, um, for speed humps and those things are not within our control at all. Um, and the police and DPW and fire have not been excited about adding such a thing, um, because of emergency vehicles, among other things. Um, but you can certainly pursue that if that's something you wanted to do. Um, is there anything else that anybody wants to discuss? Robert, do you have questions? Uh, let me see. I do want to make a note that the, the two police chiefs from Lincoln and Wayland are set to meet. And I believe that they also are looking to meet with the Carol school to offline. So I would reach out to, I would reach out to Ed Berman, the police chief in Wayland to get that discussion started. So have you been working? I know that, um, you've spoken with the town planner in Lincoln. Um, and have you been working with the police chiefs as well? Yeah. So the two police chiefs are going to meet together. Uh, and I think they did also like the Carol school representative to me with them. Okay. Discuss that off. Yeah, Robert, we've been trying to work with both chiefs to, to find a mutual time to meet. We hope to be able to do that in the next week and a half. Okay. On site. In a similar vein, I have a question. So the Wayland fire chief will weigh in because it's a Wayland project, but given the location of the school, it's more likely that Lincoln is going to be responding. So it would seem, is there any way that we can ask that Lincoln weigh in on the access and turning radiuses and all those things as well? Sure. Yeah. I mean, again, we're meeting just to remind everyone we're meeting with the select board in Lincoln on Monday. So we can mention it that it's something we'd like them to take a look at, to report back to you folks. That's great. Great. So Robert, um, for peer reviewers, where are we? We, so we hired one. They, we get, I gave them the EOK on December 30th. I will follow them tomorrow and see where they're at. That's an engineering firm. Correct. And who is that? ECT. EDC. I'm sorry. And they have the materials and they're reviewing them. Yeah. I don't know when they're going to be ready. I have not heard back from them yet. Well, you need to contact them. Yeah, I will. Um, and, uh, for traffic, is there anybody? ECT. They're doing both. Oh, they're doing both. Great. Yeah. Okay. Um, because conservation needs the engineered report as well. For the storm water so that they can move ahead. Um, I'd like to, um, we're going to need an extension of, uh, an agreement for an extension of time on this project in order to make sure that it gets peer reviewed and, uh, the public gets an opportunity to see what's going on. Um, do you think, Robert, that by our next meeting, uh, which is October the 29th, I think, uh, that we will have peer review information? I would hope so. They, they got, they got the information. Before the, uh, they got the, all the information before the other project did. So I'm hoping that we can get something by October 29th. Okay. Okay. But then you'd have to get the stuff back to the applicant and the applicant would have to look at it. So I'm wondering what the timeframes are. I would, I would try, I would try to see if we, if we could schedule it on the 29th and then go from there. And then the next few days figure out where we're at, then to, then to push it off too far and then find out, oh, we could have done the 29th. We, we should, we should have to schedule that. So I would tend to at least continue. So when, when would the project team need to have the report in order? I know that it don't depend how complicated it is, but in order to turn it around so that we could be ready for a meeting on the 29th of October. Is there a submission requirement in terms of us? You know, I know we sent Robert our, our slideshow the other day, but is there any submission requirement that we need to get you anything in advance or could we have up until the 29th if and say, you know. We'd prefer to have it a little in advance so that the board can read through it. Yeah. Well, just because it makes it easier and it moves faster. We have two major projects happening at the same time, and we're trying to stagger them so that we don't have them all on one evening if we can do that. If, if. If I may. Yes. Chair and carry. Um. Chumlono Consulting Group. I think Robert's suggestion probably makes the most sense if we can. Peer reviews are in, in the next week or so before the 29th. Um, that would at least give us an opportunity to see what the comments are, what needs to be done and be able to have a more informed. You know, brief discussion with the board about when to extend it out to, to get actual revised plans in your hand. What do you think about that, Mr. Perea? Well, the idea is to continue to the 29th and, and discuss then when we, when our team might be able to have comments back. Yeah, that, that, that was my thought bill. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it would, it wouldn't clog up your agenda for the 29th because it would just be, we've got the reports. We've looked at them. You know, again, the, the neighbor, the neighbors have comments into us and we want to be respectful of those as well. So the 29th is if we want to just sort of pencil in some time for that short discussion to, you know, to pinpoint a hearing date where we can have full revised, you know, drawings and reports back to you. Right. That would work. So, Robert. Right. Today's the 15th. I'm just looking at my calendar. Do you think that we could get something to the applicant by like the 20th? I will check in with the peer review. Well, they've had since September 30th. September 30th. So they've had it for. They've had it since September 30th. Yeah. So they have had it for two weeks. So we're hoping that they. I think when we give it to peer reviewers, we should tell them when we want the turnaround and they should say if they can do it or not. And then we work out the date so that when we come to a hearing, we know what we've got coming down. I told them that, you know, we're not expecting for the 15th, but we're expecting the 29th. I said, I just got to follow them again and see where they're at. Again, again, the 29th. At the time I looked at that to be done by, that was a month. That doesn't answer the question. Because the concern that I have is we need stuff from them to get to the applicant so the applicant can turn it around and we don't have that much time to do these things. So when you call the consultants and just get a schedule. Sure. Okay, well, we can extend it if it's okay to the 29th. But I guess, Robert, we have the the timeframe that we're supposed to have a decision by is what date and the first November the first. Correct. And we need and there's no way we're going to get done with this project and issue a decision by November the first. Would you be willing to give us an extension of time, say 45 days from from November the first to render a decision if we can do it? I would have to, you know, ask my client and the team about that. But, of course, we would offer an extension because we know we're not going to get through this by November 1st. Right. I think I heard you mention Mr. Sterling might be on. Bill Sterling? Yeah. Bill Sterling. Is he going to discuss it? Because the design review advisory board met last evening. And I think that we have to appear before them again as well. That's right. Maybe he's coming to talk about that. I don't know. I just heard him. Technically, they have to issue their decision within 30 days to us and all that. So, yeah, what we discussed last night was that you need to work with Robert and Anina to get yourself a new date to meet with us because you weren't able to meet with us yesterday. Oh, OK. We discussed the plan without your input because you guys asked to not meet last night. So, OK, well, that clarifies it. Yeah. OK. I think you can talk to Mr. Sterling offline. Sure. But in any case, I think the idea of continuing to the 29th and tomorrow or the next day, I can submit an extension document. That would be great because we're running right up against the time frame and I don't want to do that. That's perfectly sensible to do that. I can coordinate that with my team and. Terrific. Yeah. And Robert, we for the site walk for this project. Yes, we can try it. We can try to say that now. See, I didn't get any types of the app and I have all the I have all the times. And the only day the consultant was not available was the 21st. Why don't you give us the dates that are that everyone is available. I have to look at the schedule, which ones are out because of course, because of that. Open meeting. I can't understand what you're saying. I think let me look at the ones that we can't use now because open meeting law. Uh, the 20th. I have the 20th. 2 to 5, 2 to 5. And that's out 3 o'clock, 3 and a half, 3.30 for Robin. I thought you had figured out when a time whenever you have the app in one. I don't have the app. And so I can't plug it in. No, for us. When we were available and then we can tell the applicant. Yeah. 3.30. So we, uh, Annette, if that can't go to that one. And then the other one be 10, 30 to one. That's fine. So you could do 12 o'clock noon on the 23rd, which is a Thursday, next Thursday. But I just need the information from the app and I don't have that. That's one. The 12, 12 o'clock. Robert, I can't follow it. Just write down the few dates and then tell us what they are. And then. The 23rd at 12 o'clock works for everybody, including the peer review consultant. And then also 8th and 9th on the 24th. So 8th and 9th on the 24th, which is a Friday. And when you said Thursday, does that work for Jesse too? It does. At 12 o'clock. Jesse is good for 10, 30 to one. Okay. So, um. At 12 o'clock on Thursday. Does it either at 12 o'clock or 8 o'clock on the day after? Does that work for the applicant? And we have some input from our team on that. So that's either Thursday, the 23rd at noon or Friday, the 24th at 8 a.m. I mean, we don't need the, we don't need the whole team to be there. We just, we just, I think we just need someone represented from, from, from the, uh, just be on, on site from the Carol school. But also being sensitive. This is also a school that's open too. Is there going to be a need to go inside or are you mostly just looking to get the light? No, we don't need to go inside. We don't need to go inside. We don't need to be outside. Okay. But at 8, um, isn't that when your traffic's coming in? Sure. And the other thing I would say is that noontime kids are eating lunch and they're outside. So there's like lots of kids outside between 12 and 1. So. So that's not great for you. Well, we can make anything work. I just want to just lift that up that that's. Okay. On the Friday, Robert, it was eight to what? Nine. Eight to nine. That was it? That was, that was it for Jesse and Robin. Yeah. I mean, you can probably meet, potentially meet earlier, but I don't have that time from the, from everybody else right now. Right now. And on Thursday, the, uh, the 12 o'clock, is there a range on that one? Uh, it also depends on who, if people can't attend. Yeah. I mean, Jesse, 10 to 30 to one. Larry, 12, 12 to four. Robin, 11 to two. Robert, this isn't helpful. When you, you need to just. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it depends if someone drops off. If someone drops off, it makes it easier. Well, we don't want anybody to drop. I know I'm just, I'm just plain depth of that. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. It would be helpful if you kind of came to a conclusion and then gave us two or three times, uh, top times, as opposed to kind of figuring out on fly. I think is what she's saying. So what about the 20? What about the 23rd at one o'clock? Does that work or not? That was for Larry. That was for Annette. That was for Robin. And that would just not cut off. That would cut off Jesse. That's it. Tell you what. I'll make it work. 23rd of October. 23rd of October at one. Is that, and you have to check with your project team? No, we can decide right now. I think, can we make Thursday at one work folks? Yeah. If you want me, that's okay with me. I can do it. Okay. We can figure out who really needs to be there. Other people, how do other people feel about that? Yes. Carol is good with it. Okay. Thank you. We'll set that up. And now we'll set up the open meeting. That's the agenda as I walk. Okay. Let's do that. The 23rd at one PM on campus. Terrific. Thank you very much. So, we'll continue this. I'd like a motion to continue this hearing until October the 29th. At 7 o'clock? At 7 o'clock? No. At 7.15. So moved. Seconded. All in favor. Robin? Yes. Larry Kiernan? Yes. I reminded you. Yes. Annette Lewis. Jesse. Yes. Jesse Newberry. Yes. Okay. Passes. Okay. So thank you everyone. And thanks for the nice presentation. We appreciate it. Thank you all. Have a good day. Thank you. Good night. Thank you. Thank you. The next thing we need to do is the A&R plan. 29. Okay. Robert, do you want to put it up on the screen and have either you or the attorney just tell us what's going on? Yeah, I believe this is three, three lots here. The data lines are where they're showing where the existing lots are, lot one. And then these be, I think, I don't know what's going on. The existing lots were, but what they were called, but the data lines are this one coming here. And then this is the other lot line that's here. I'm going to ask the attorney to give us the presentation because in the write up, it says in the notes, I believe it says that there are in the application that they're combining lot one and lot two. And it looks like they're more than that there. So we need to understand what we're looking at. I'm here. This is bill for you for the record for Carroll school. So the engineer who prepared this is not at the meeting tonight. Okay. So if you look at number two, it says the planning, the purpose is to combine lots one and two is shown on some other plan that we haven't looked at. But it looks as though you're combining three lots. There are only. If I can jump in for a second, I think I can explain. Good. Thank you. So the center plot and the one that's labeled lot one was the existing- I couldn't see which one was labeled lot one. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I do see lot one. Sorry. Take it back. The largest plot and the middle plot- Yes, is one. Right. Got it. It is two plots. However, that is one property. So 30. So 39 and 45. 39 is the middle. 45 is the left. I see. Thank you. And then the, the western most plot was purchased after. And that is, we are erasing the plot line in the middle. And then erasing the other plot line for 37. Right. Yeah. Got it. Thank you. I appreciate that. Okay. Robert, did you- I had one question. That, that little tail that's down, the one that's off of apple tree lane, is that, that's not being merged at this time? That's all part of the lot. That's all part of the lot. That's not a lot line. It's an easement line. Oh, okay. All right. It's hard to see. Yeah. So, Robert, you checked- Yeah, so the triangle that's bisected by the easement is part of lot one. Okay. Robert, you reported to us that you checked it and everything looked okay. There was a typo somewhere, now I'm familiar, I saw a typo on the notes. On the notes. On the notes. On the notes. I'm trying to- I'm blowing up. I'm trying to read it. What's the typo? I have to remember what it was. It was something- Oh, come on. There was a typo that I saw. Is it an important typo? I don't- We kind of skim through it right now, can't you? To the existence of unrecorded easements of abiding properties are from current disaster circuit. We'll take it into quadrants and- Are you trying to figure out what the problem is, Robert? Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what the typo was. Maybe it's- And is not certification to the title? Should it be certified or something instead of certification? No, it wasn't- I don't- Maybe it's over here? I don't know. It won't be that point if I didn't remember what it was. Yeah. You should have marked it. I should have, but I reviewed this a few weeks ago. If it's not something that's significant, can we vote to- Yeah, I mean, if I can't remember what it was, it probably wasn't at that point. But it's probably something I should just note it for the record. So, yeah, I would recommend voting on it today. Okay. Does anyone have any questions on the plan? Nope. Nope. Nope. Can I have a motion to approve the A&R plan that was submitted? Does it have a date on it, Robert? It does. August 12th, 2025 is what they dated it. To approve the A&R plan dated August 12th, 2025? Yep. So moved. Seconded. All in favor, Robin Borgestedt? Yes. Annette Lewis, yes. Larry Kiernan? Yes. Ira Montague? Yep. Jesse Newberry? Yes. At this point, what do you have? Do you have a Mylar or just a paper copy? I have. I believe I have Mylar. Okay. So we need to come in and sign it? Correct. Okay. And you just tell us when you'll be there so that we can come in and sign it, or how you want us to do it. Just leave it on your table, unless you're not going anywhere tomorrow. I'll be there tomorrow. 8 o'clock. Okay. Well, hopefully. I'll let you know. If I'm not there, if I'm not there, then Nita is there. But we'll just, I would just, people would just come in and sign. Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you, everyone. We appreciate your patience. Thank you all. Good night. Thank you. Thank you all. Can we review and approve draft minutes? Yeah, I have two sets of minutes. I'm not sure if we saw both of them, but. No, just one of them. Or I think it's just one of them. We've only seen one of them. And that's the 17th, 9-17. All right. We can just skip over 10. We'll do 10th next week. It's fine. Next time. I did have both, but that's fine. Pardon me? Yeah. I said both, but that's, we can just skip over it. And the agenda said both, but I didn't see it in a packet. Yeah. Only one. I did. I thought I'd send it back for me or not. So let me just pull up the 10th, the 17th on the screen. The 17th is the one that we're approving. Correct. And we have, we have, we have, we have enough, we have time for another meeting to. I'm sorry. I can't understand what you're saying. We have time at the next meeting to, to, to review the 10th. The 10th. Yes. Yes. So we're fine from open, open meeting alarm. Right. Sorry. It's, it's so late. All right. So this is the 17th and I had Annette and Jessie looking over. Have people had an opportunity to review it? Yes. Yes. Uh, are they are getting quite long? Huh? I know. I asked Robert if we could figure out how to make them shorter. I'm making sure by, by not having like all these bullets and kind of subbing into paragraphs. Are you just picking this up from honor? No, we have someone who writes it. We have a minute taker, right? Yeah. Michelle. Um, there's one section that you had corrected. And, um, I mentioned to you after I saw it, that it needed further correction. Um, and it dealt with. Besides the current peer reviews. Yeah. The scope of work thing. It should be scope of work, not scopes of works or whatever it is. Review. Okay. For peer review. Scopes of work. Good catch. And you will consult peer review firms. I think there were, it was two places review on this line above that scopes of work. Okay. Does anyone else have any other comments? Yeah. Does she take this off of the tape? Is that how she gets it so accurate? Yeah. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. It's like a stenographer. It's like a stenographer. It's a little too much. Yeah. I have no other comments. Hopefully this ends up in the next minutes. This conversation right here. Okay. Let's have a motion to approve the minutes. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. 917. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. 917. 917. Seconded. I'll make a second. Or you second it. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Who's all in favor. Robin Borgestedt. Yes. Iron Man. Yes. Larry Kiernan. Yes. Jesse Newberry. Yes. Great. Thank you. Nick, we didn't call upon you, but you were free to in the site plan reviews to make comments as well. You can't vote on it, but you can certainly make comments and we'd like to hear them for the future. Okay. Then the Andrew Avenue Community Center. Yeah, I think so. I think Bill Sterling is here, but I'm not sure how he got a link. Cause I didn't send him a link. So, what makes me, did someone else send him a link? Cause I did not send him one. Okay. Yeah. Normally Bill, we don't, we like the people who are in that hearing to be on the screen. And if they're not in that particular hearing to wait until their time to show their face. Cause it gets confusing. And Mike Fay is also here. I'm just saying, I'm sending him up to the facilities director. Hello everybody. Okay. Okay. So part of the requirements of the COA amended decision earlier this year was to bring back a landscape plan on how to screen the, the electrical equipment after we, after the, after I believe Larry and Annette did a sidewalk of this property. Um, I believe that this is the, uh, the plan that, that the public providing the town for review and consideration. And when you just pull, I'm trying to find my notes on this. Um, so I would let, uh, Michael Fay, the facility director of town and Bill Sterling, um, discuss any more about this. If, you know, if there are questions. Well, my question is that I don't really fully understand what's being proposed. So I need somebody to talk us through it. Basically, Annette, what we're doing is we're going to surround the existing, um, electrical structure with some fencing, uh, that matches the existing fencing around the, uh, entire area. It's a grayish, uh, aluminum fencing that they've used throughout the area. And that'll match. Like I said, it will match what's at the COA. Plus I believe bill it's, um, somewhere else on site. Can somebody show us the actual plan? It's the plan that I didn't understand. I understood that you were going to use that kind of screen. Yeah. I can pop on a screen. Can you see it? So, so where it goes? So where exactly? Okay. So it's going behind the bollards. Yes. That's fine. It's going around the equipment. Um, that's the one from the Northeast from the parking lot. Does it go completely around to the rear as well? And then here's from the South. So. And then there's an opening. Again, it was hard to understand. There's an opening on the parking lot side and another opening on the building side. For access to service without having to add doors. Okay. And how on the parking lot side, how large is the entrance? Because I can't see an entrance there. You can see a floor plan, too, if you scroll to, uh, to the plans. Oh, good. I'll pull it up on the screen. There's a blow up of that floor plan. In the. Is this what you're looking for? Right here? In the report. There is a blow up of the floor plan. Um. Oh. Yep. I see it now. Right. There it is. So. I couldn't understand it. There are two drawings of it. The one on the left is showing the fence location with little X's and lines. That's what those represent. The X's and lines have a gap on the lower left and another gap on the upper right. You can see where it says open. That means that's your opening from the parking lot side. Robert. Can you point to the two openings? I think I see the open. There's one. That's the one from the parking lot there. Got it. And I believe it's here, too. Yep. Okay. So it goes all around that. Yep. Does anybody have comments? My only comment is, can we put a door, particularly on the parking lot side? I would hate to see somebody sort of wander in there. Well, that's primarily for the fire department. They need to have sight line of sight for the emergency button. That's the reason why we have that in the front. Okay. But do you think that it would be inviting people to walk in? Walk in and don't get out? Well, I assume there'll be a sign on it says, do not enter or something. Maybe we could, we could definitely look into signage. Yeah. Something that's there that gives them some sort of warning. Put high voltage side on it. Yeah. Right. Or we could, we could actually maybe put some sort of maybe a yellow piece of chain or maybe paint the color chain across. As long as the fire department can see the button, you know, we can put something across there. That would be fine. But I wouldn't use a yellow chain. Yeah. No, I'm stood. No. That's safety. That's safety piece coming out of me in that. I'm sorry. I mean, even the yellow bollards, that's not, I mean, the rest of the town center doesn't have yellow bollards. They're all black, but at least having the fencing around it will make it look a little better. Hmm. Uh, we asked for black and we were not allowed to use black. Who wouldn't? The fire department? That was a building department determination. That's weird. I thought so too. Maybe you should try the new building commissioner. With a spray can. Does anyone have any? So the drawing on the right is basically just to show that there's landscaping, the little, you see a little darker circles and so forth. There'd be a cluster of plants on the lower end and another cluster of plants on the upper end to help soften the impact of the fencing. Good idea. Certainly better than just the electric unit. So that's an improvement. No. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. So do we want to approve that? I'm fine. Yeah. Yeah. Fine with it. Jesse. Yeah. Okay. Me too. Um, so, um, we need to do something, Robert, to amend the plan. Somehow. And this isn't, um, a plan plan to amend, if you know what I mean. I understand. So how are we going to do that? Well, it was part of the conditions that it said that they need to propose. It didn't say that they have to come back to amend this plan with the original plan. I'm trying to figure out how you follow that. Well, I mean, of course it's an amendment to the original plan, because then there wouldn't be a record of this having been done. What are these ways to handle that? We need to, we need to first of all, write a decision. And the decision needs to refer to documents. Okay. Okay. And it wouldn't be a complicated decision. It would be similar to others that we've done when we've just done a short amendment. Okay. We can do that for the 29th. Okay. Um, so, um, I don't think I asked for a vote yet. Um, just thinking about how to, uh, phrase this. Um, I guess a motion to approve, um, an updated landscape plan for PB number 2303 8 Andrew Avenue Council and Aging Community Center, uh, to enclose the, um, utility panel next to the, uh, parking lot, um, with, uh, a black fence, uh, as shown in the pictures that we've seen this evening. So moved. Seconded. All in favor, Larry Kiernan. Yes. Jesse Newberry. Yes. Robin Borgestedt. Yes. Uh, Ira Montague. Yes. Annette Lewis. Yes. Um, Robert, is there one other piece that you were saying still has to be accomplished? Uh, I, I do have, I do have the, it says that the, um, once approved, the screening should be installed by the applicant. Inspected by the plan board agent prior to the addition of the final COA, CO. And then they also need to have a final ASBO plan, which would need to be reviewed and have a, you know, a sidewalk to make sure everything is correct. Before the issuance of the final CO. Correct. Is that, can that happen? In the timeframe we've got? Uh, probably not. Cause we're running out of time. I think the deadline is coming up very soon, like next month. I think about about a month away. Well, you need to tell us what the timeframe is we're dealing with. And if we need to do something that gives them another extension of time. And then when we write the decision, it also gives them an extension of time, or if we can get it all done. Uh, no, so they got, so it was May 13th, six months after that. So we're looking at, uh, November, November 13th. So yeah, they would need to probably need to, uh, extend that deadline. Cause this will not be done. This everything will not be done in, in three or four weeks. Well, no, the work won't be done, but we can get the drawings. Yeah. But you need everything done. It says it needs, it needs, once approved, the screen must be installed by the applicant, inspected by the planner agent, which is may prior to the issues of the final COA. So you, you can get all the, you can get all the approval done, but you, but you need to put it in the ground and I need to say, yep, thumbs up. Thumbs up. That's good. So that won't be done. So the board should probably amend that deadline and give, figure out what the, figure out what the, what the, uh, When do you think, uh, Mike, that you'll be done? Uh, I, uh, mid December would be good. I've got to get to a few contractors, get some pricing now that it's approved. Okay. Two, two months, two months, maybe just to, just to give enough room. We're going to like to come back again for an amendment. And so two months would be December, January, mid January. Pardon me. I thought you said two months would be, that would be like December the 15th. Uh, it's, it's going to, it's the, the, the sixth month is running out on November 13th. So one month would be December 13th, two months would be January 13th of the next year. Oh, I, Mike was saying two months from now, right? Yeah. Yeah. I thought he was saying two months from now. Yeah. Just putting a fence around that box, a wire fence. No, it's aluminum. It's aluminum, uh, square tubing. It looks like the other ones around the, uh, the trash receptacles at the town center. Okay. I was just adding an extra month to make sure there's enough. We don't have to keep going back. I would hate to have to have to keep coming back and it's just. I leave it to you. Um, you tell us what you need and we'll deal with it. Yeah. Uh, I, I think. Yeah. Rob, it's good. January, whatever day in January is fine. So maybe two, be two, be two months beyond the day of that. Yep. And I'm fine with that. I just want to make sure that we. And what's that date? Uh, January, uh, January 13th. January 13th. Let me see what the exact date is. But it's a date from, from that day. Uh, January 12th, 2026. Okay. So you can put that in one short amendment. Yep. I will. Okay. Do we need to vote that or can we just do it by consensus? Uh, let's, let's vote it. So it'd be easier for them. Okay. Um, why don't you make the motion and then we'll. Cause I, at this point I'm confused. The motion would be to extend. Uh, um, the motion. The motion to meet is to extend the deadline of decision condition 5.2.3, which requires within six months to require that be within six, eight months of the temporary CEO. So you're just changing six months to eight months. Okay. That, that would be the motion. Okay. Who's going to make that? I can do that. So, uh, I move that we extend the deadline. From November 13th to January 13th of 2026 for the final approval. Of the applicable plan. Of the applicable plan. As bill. As bill. Oh, sorry. As bill. Okay. Is there a second? Second. All in favor, Robin? Yes. Larry Kiernan? Yes. Yes. Jesse Newberry. Yes. I reminded you. Yes. Annette Lewis. Yes. Is there anything else that we need to do on this? Nope. I think once, once they install it, and once we have the decision, we mend the decision at the next meeting, um, I think they just have to inspect it. And then we have to, our team here has to, has to inspect the final as bill plan. Okay. And that would include, that would include, uh, the, uh, Michael, uh, Mike from facilities, uh, town DPW, town server may, and where was also needs to be. So, okay. So on the as bill plan, it will show the fence. And so we don't need to do an interim amendment. And you'll refer to that in the, uh, decision that we're going to issue. Great. Yeah. Great. Thank you. Is there anything else that you guys need? Nope. That's it. Okay. Okay. Thank you. All right, Mike. Yeah. Is that the flagpole? No, it's just the, the, we just want to make sure that we, it's located on the plan properly. That's all. Oh, yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you, Michael. Thanks, Phil. Thanks guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Good night. Okay. Robert, moving on to Cherena road. So I was made aware. Yep. So I was made aware that the 13th Street and Road approved subdivision that was approved defendant subdivision that was, sorry, mouth is a lot of dry. That was approved by the plan board earlier this year. The, um, water main and hydrogen plan was modified and I'm going to pull on the screen just in case people did not have a chance to, um, look at it as much, but the water main was coming off of Cherena road before, and now they are proposing it to come off the easement off of O connected path. So previously it was coming off here and connecting. Now it's good. It's going to connect and come in as be served off of O connected path. Um, and this appears to be a amendment. I mean, it appears to be needed for, to approve this plan, which we have. They have predefined. We, the plan board has approved a final plan set for this. And this would be a modification and a change to this. And the, I, I loaded the app again, that, that most likely the planning board is going to ask for amendment and the plan that they should submit a amendment for public hearing. So under the subdivision control law, anytime you make any changes after an approved subdivision plan, you have to, it says that you have to do it in the same way that you did the original application, uh, which requires, because it's a subdivision. It requires public notice in the newspaper in two consecutive weeks. Yep. Um, so that's, I think what we have to do, because that's what the law says. So, um, when they do that, make a formal application, then Robert put the notice in the newspaper for a hearing date. Um, and one of our regular nights, I hope, uh, we'll have to talk through what that date is, Robert, you and I, and, um, then we'll have a hearing. Um, and, uh, if we're okay with this, and I think we should look at it now to see if anybody has any issues with it. My only issue is I don't understand why it's changing. Yeah. They get a reason. Uh, I believe the, uh, the owner is, he is on the call. So I'm not sure if you want to allow her to speak on that. Yep. Let her speak. Yeah. Let me just. Her hands are up. Yeah. I, I've, I have the screen open, so I'm trying to get the other screen open. I carry spirits, carry spirit speak now. Hello. Hi, Carol. Hi. Hi, Annette. Hi. Say your name and where you live again, just for the record. This is Carol Sito of 13 Turina Row. So in front of you is the, um, conservation approved, the, um, new water main coming in from old Connecticut path. Uh, the reason of the change is because, uh, the neighbor of, uh, 11 Turina Row, Manisa. She is concerned that the, uh, water line coming in from old Connecticut path might potentially damage the root system of the willow tree that is on the side of the property. So we have, um, my attorney to talk about, you know, a right to use the, uh, private waterway. And we also hire, uh, arbors to show the root system and how we're 25 feet away from the willow tree. And that will actually actually is not in good health. So the likelihood that even if we don't do the water line there, um, that willow tree eventually is, you know, in a, uh, declined health, but she's adamant that, you know, nothing can be remotely disturbing the root system. So this went on for about four meetings, public hearing. And so finally we decided, um, we would just cannot let this, you know, drag on. So Linda approached, uh, water department and asked them if it's possible to have the water line coming in from old kinetic path. And they said, uh, not a problem. My engineer, uh, Kevin has also talked to the water department and they said that it's not an issue either. So then we, um, agreed to make that concession basically is to have the water line come in from old kinetic path instead of the private way. Um, that actually, um, is, uh, in my mind, it is a lot easier because we don't really have to dig up the existing, uh, private way. That strip is the easement that is just grass area. Um, so, so then that's one of the conditions that they would agree to approve, uh, for conservation to approve the project. And so we just went along with it. You know, that did, that whole issue was brought up the very first meeting. And who, who was the engineer on that? Kevin. Jelson. Pardon me? Kevin, Kevin. Kevin Leary. Yeah. I remember him arguing that you, that was not the best way because there were too many joints. So that's why that kind of, but, you know, I think it's great. You've come to a solution. I think it's great that everyone says that's the way to do it. Cause that way you, if the tree dies, it's not going to be your fault. Right? Well, I think that it's really inappropriate, quite frankly, for the conservation commission to have done that. That's my own opinion. Um, Carol, if you want to do it. Um, and if the board is okay with it. Yeah. We, we have already agreed. This is an, and conservation actually already closed the hearing and they're in the process of writing the order of condition. Um, so that's why Linda notified Robert that, uh, that's a change of the water main coming in just so that we can make sure everything is reflected properly with the planning boards. Um, okay. So, um, for what you submit to us. Um, it, I don't know what the original. It needs somehow to be on the, on the equivalent of an original plan. Doesn't it Robert? Yeah. I would, I would. You need to help them and tell them which plan needs to be amended. Um, it's the site development plan. Um, so you would need the mylar of that reflect the water coming in. Okay. So I would, I would, I would submit the amendment with the page sheet that you're need to amend and with the very quick narrative, just explain what you're looking to do. Yeah. And once you do that, then we'll get you quick as soon as possible on it. You know, a regular. And then we'd have to amend the decision. Correct. And that would all have to get filed again. Yeah. Go for the whole process. But as soon as you, as you submit this and as soon as we can work and decide and rule on that. But is everyone okay with that? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Uh, Carol, are you done with conservation or are they still have one more permit? Um, in terms of the subdivision, they approve it on the 29th, September 29th. So Linda said the order of condition is coming out this week. Um, he said, well, we have 21 days. So I I'm sure as you're just. You know, taking her 21 days to write the order of condition. The other one, the other one is the lot. One, uh, the, uh, 194. And they also approve it. The last meeting, uh, October 8th. So, um, they, I, I hope that's what notify the building department because that's the only thing holding my building permit. And I'm still waiting. Uh, I'm sorry. Um, you might want to talk to somebody, for example, uh, in one of the oversight offices, just to explain the process you've been through. I, I, I don't know who I can talk to. I mean, this, this is like been two years and. I know. I think try the town manager. Hmm. Well. He's very approachable. Yeah. Thank you for the suggestions. I, I, I will take it under advisement. Okay. Thank you. All right. So, Rob. Yep. Go ahead. Sorry. I cut you off. So I will, uh, let Kevin knows that, um, we'll have to just go through this process, uh, for the amendment. Yeah. And just, if, if you need help, just, we can sit down and go for it before. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you.
I, I was aware on Friday that there was a meeting between Sudbury and Wayland on the Thursday before day four. Um, and so. It felt, I don't know if the planning board has any real role in this or not, but it felt like it'd be helpful for the plan board to discuss, to roll to either a rule that, yes, we should take an action or there's no action to be taken, but I didn't want, it appears that people would like the planning board to at least chime in if there is something that they need to do. This is a scenic road in Wayland, but it does not really, it doesn't appear to be involved in anything. I told you that Doug Stokes had asked for some time to make a presentation to the planning board. I'm not sure exactly whether we have any purview there, but he did want to make a presentation. Do you remember? You said you're going to put it at the end of the meeting. Yeah. Depends how long the presentation is. Well, if it's as long as what he submitted, no. Well, I put it on the agenda to have this discussion so that, because it was, I was asked to. Right, for a discussion, but that's not a presentation. I just want to understand what he wants to present.
I've looked at all the materials myself. I'm hoping others have, and I'd be curious what you guys think. I know what I think. I think it's a tough one for us to wade into. I think it's a tough one for us to have a little say-so or something, but. No, I mean, that's fine. I just, I'm not sure what kind of jurisdiction we have. In fact, I can't think of any. Can't think of any either. I attended the meeting in Sudbury, and frankly, I was surprised at everyone's reaction coming out. I thought they had a visioning meeting. They obviously gave it good thought. Everyone had an opinion. I like a rough bridge. I don't want a rough bridge. I want an old bridge. I want a smooth bridge. I want a railing that protects people. I want to cross the bridge. You know, it's like, yeah, bikers, cars, they've clearly thought of many of the things. I don't live by Sherman Bridge, so I'm sure people local have more to say, but I'm not sure what the planning board's role would be. Um, I do, I did have a brief conversation with Tom Holder just to understand what he thought our jurisdiction might be. And again, under the scenic road bylaw, we don't have jurisdiction under scenic road bylaw. Our only, uh, things that we can deal with are removal of trees on the scenic road and, um, removal or, uh, something happening to stone walls. Otherwise, we have no jurisdiction. Um, and it, I think it is really in the total purview of the DPW, um, because of the statute that created the DPW. Um, I'm happy to listen to people, but I just want them to hear from us now that there's really not much that we can do. And, and Mr. Holder said that they were in the pro that he had received some good comments, uh, at the meeting, uh, and they were in the process of revising the plans. And I think that he, I forget what, what the timeframe was, but I thought it was like within two weeks or something like that. So, um, I thought that was promising. I think the people made an impact at the hearing.
So, well, it wasn't clear before the meeting if they were going to keep the boat launch. Um, so I know a bunch of folks were concerned about that, but it looks like they are, um, so yeah, they, they're. Doing what they should be doing, I think. Okay. Um, shall I ask for public comment for a little, like 10 minutes? Cause it's, it's late. Um, it's 10 33. Public comment today, tonight? Well, we have a few hands up. Yeah, I think we should. I'm sorry. I think we should. Um, Yamini Ranjan, state your name and address, please. Uh, hello. Can you hear me? Yep. Just a second. So, okay. Um, my name is Yamini Ranjan, and I'm a resident of Weyland, 6th Shermans Bridge Road. I want to express my strong support for preserving Shermans Bridge, a place that obviously everybody knows beautifully reflects our town's character and connection to nature. Whenever friends and family visit, we always take them to see Shermans Bridge and enjoy the walk into the surrounding conservation area. It's one of the Weyland's most cherished, uh, spots. As plans move forward, I urge all of you, even if it doesn't fall in your jurisdiction, to preserve the bridge's historic and rural, uh, integrity. And to avoid using asphalt, you know, which would alter its natural look and feel, because I think the foundation is not being changed. It's the asphalt that is the major, uh, thing on it. Let's maintain the materials and character that makes this, uh, bridge really special. Thank you. Thank you for letting me speak. Thank you. Is there anyone else who feels that they want to speak?
No. Mr. Stotz, you don't want to speak now?
Okay. Yep. Now he is.
Uh, it would be tough for me to summarize the 86 pages. I think. I know. I think the planning board knows how I feel, but I thank you for the opportunity. And, uh, you know, I'm finding there's very broad community support from both communities to save Sherman's Bridge and certainly would appreciate all help and support. And, uh, if not jurisdiction, uh, the power of moral suasion that the, uh, planning board may choose to exercise on this matter. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Anybody else? Okay. Um, is there anything else that anybody has for, uh, comments and concerns? Uh, just, um, for the board, maybe, uh, we can do this in a future meeting, but I'm, uh, joining or have joined. You know, on my role on the CPC, um, they asked if there were initiatives or interest areas from the planning board on, um, recreation or historic, uh, activities from the planning board. So I'll just leave that out to folks. Um, I didn't have anything to propose projects. You mean? Yeah. Uh, that we might be interested in.
Okay. Another soccer field. Where in your backyard? Yeah. We take over a neighborhood. Did you ask for the housing thing to be, um, funded again, your housing? I have not, I have not asked for it, but yes, I am, I'm in process of, of some application. Um, so there will, there will be an application for that. Okay. Um, there was a, there was a, yeah, there was a, I, I noted to Susan that there was a, the, the changes, she had, she had a document and like weird track changes and you couldn't, you couldn't met, you couldn't change it. So she had to amend it. So I have not, I finished the application yet. Yep. And I'll, I'll follow up with you, Robert on, um, uh, conservation note. Um, and that said, uh, sent earlier today. Yeah. We need to be on that and just so that we know what's really happening. Yeah. Okay. Um, anything else?
Uh, if you, if there are things that you want on the next agenda, just send them forward. Uh, and in the meantime, I will think about what we have been working on and what we can push forward, uh, in between these big projects.
Okay. Is there a motion to adjourn? I move to adjourn. Second. All in favor, Robin Borkstead. Yes. Larry Kiernan. Yes. Ira Montague. Yes. Jesse Newberry. Yes. Annette Lewis. Yes. Thank you very much. Sorry. It's so late. Robert. Right. Good night, everyone. Good night.